Glad that worked out for you! 11 is indeed a notoriously tricky vintage, but the 11 Hubert Ligniers I’ve had have been very good and not green. Your note is also consistent with what I’d expect from these wines - they’re certainly more structured and darker than the wines you mentioned you’ve drunk before.
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
The two or three 04 Rousseau I’ve had taste and smell like pickle juice. It’s a bad vintage for Rousseau. It happens. It happens to all good producers.
A bit of somewhat contradictory advice, which doesn’t mean I don’t also agree with much of what’s been said, but… try not to listen to us too much. We pick and proclaim and praise and profane. Vintages, producers, vineyards. Examining your options through the lens of board recommendations and warnings can be hugely helpful. It can also lead to a lot anxiety about your choices. Plus, it can imply that you might “get it wrong.” There is no wrong. You might like what others hate and vice versa. Don’t be afraid of that. I’m not saying ignore us all, just take it all with a grain of salt. If what you truly want is to learn about the region and build your palate, in addition to having some off the charts experiences, you might actually seek out a bottle or two from vintages you hear are problematic. It will help calibrate your palate and understand the notes you read. If you agree they are bad, you never have to buy one again- because YOU didn’t like it. I am a firm believer that vintage variation is a wonderful and fascinating thing. If you start off only searching for those top vintages, you’ll have holes in your understanding. So go ahead and try them all as you’re learning. Maybe skew more towards the “great” than the tricky, but don’t get scared of them just because people on WB say so. It can be really useful in your learning curve to NOT like something every once in a while.
I’m not trying to do a commercial here, but would recommend that you look into the wine club behind La Paulee: pressoir.wine They are gradually moving back to in-person after the Zoom phase from last year (which I didn’t care for). I’m a member but the last event I attended was last year’s La Paulee held the weekend before everything closed down.
Greg…thanks for the advice and also your experience.
Yes - it happened all the times because the bottle of wine is red burgundy from not an ideal vintage. I would love to have more details and more specific of an bad experience.
Sadly I do not have any more Rousseau 2004 CdBeze due to the recent price-checks in Wine-Searchers ( and I let someone else drink it !!).
Sarah…truly a connoisseur approachable ![[thumbs-up.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f84c5acc11486ee4baba6dee6cf61dbd133abb18.gif "[thumbs-up.gif]"){kind=small}
Always…remember that you are the one who will drink the wine ( and not the poster in Wine-Board ).
Sarah, I love your passion for wine and your approach to wine. You have as good an approach to wine for yourself as anyone here. But, for many people, if their first experiences with a type of wine are not good ones because of poor choices, their reaction is to stop buying wine from the region (rather than continuing to experiment with the region as you suggest in an effort to make better choices). We have seen a number of threads on wines from various regions arguing that because the three or four wines the person has tried from the region are not good, all wines from the region are not good and their learning about the region stops. Thus, I think it is helpful for a person new to a region to start with wines people who are passionate about the region tend to like, see what the region is all about and then after having done this beginning to do the experimenting you suggest.
Sarah- I hear + appreciate the wisdom there. That makes a lot of sense to me, the inherent contradiction is not something I view as a problem. What you’re describing in wine is in many ways analogous to the higher levels of my field (professional audio production). There are $5000 pieces of audio hardware that I just don’t care for, (and there’s freebie software that I depend on…). The specifics of high-end speaker design can be as unique as the differences between winemakers (I’m still searching for the perfect speakers…). There’s a time to listen to others, and also a time to just do my thing.
Howard- also totally hear what you’re saying. But, I like a challenge, I have a bit of time + money to explore, I don’t expect learning like this to be quick or easy (and, if it were, that might well take the fulfillment out of it). It’s not likely I’ll get bored or give up quickly.
Want you to both know how much I appreciate your replies. It’s a privilege to be able to learn like this, such a different scene than Facebook/Twitter/Reddit/whatever.
Coming late to this thread but from your list, I would not hesitate to buy these (at proper price)
The ones missing just means I don’t know.
Jonathan, I want to add an example to show how much I think in general of Sarah’s response. On the thread about my favorite wine over the last 5 years, I answered Truchot 1999 Clos de la Roche. Today, this is a pretty expensive wine, but when I bought it the cost was much lower. Some of this is the change in the market, some of this is the wine now is 20 years old, etc., but a lot of this is because the perceptions on what makes great Burgundy has changed in the last 20 years when it was more dominated (at least in the US) by what Robert Parker liked. I came to Truchot’s wines in the late 1980s from an outstanding retail wine person and bought his wines because I loved them even though the wines were not highly rated at the time. I mention Truchot because he is (well, was, he is now retired) my favorite producer but I could name other producers where I have had the same experiences.
In fact most people on this board who have been drinking wine for a long time could tell similar stories - producers who the critics did not love but that they have loved. In some cases the views of critics have changed (in many cases the critics have changed), in some cases not, but it is key to be drinking what you like and not what others may like, whether a top critic, people on this board, or CellarTracker reviews. I think this is a huge part of Sarah’s posts and I agree with it 100%. In fact, I am sure Sarah could point out multiple producers where for her this has been the case.
But, when you are first starting out with a wine region, it can be hard to determine whether when you like or dislike a certain wine, is it because of the producer, because of the vintage or because of the entire region. You don’t want to give up on a region too early if the problem is only the producer or the vintage because there are other wines from the region you may love once you taste more broadly. I can think of some Burgundies I have had where, if they were the first ones I ever tasted, I may have given up on what is my favorite wine region. And, this is not unique to Burgundy, but applies to most regions. I think particularly of places like Bordeaux where in some cases there can be vast differences in the tastes of wines produced in a more modern style from wines produced more traditionally.
Howard - perhaps you simply do not realize how patronizing it is for you to repeatedly “compliment” my “passion for” and “approach to” while never making the slightest mention of my knowledge and experience. You have done so in numerous threads so far, usually before you disagree with me. I have no problem with disagreement. Condescension, however, bothers me a great deal.
Hmmm - I total agree with you Michael and I hear you clear. But…on the contrary …and please read what I had written down in post No. 39.
I trust my favorite producer ( most of them are micro vigerons - who perhaps need my support ). I bought his 2004 wine and also 2011 ( but lesser quantity of course ). I did not stop buying them for the main purpose to be well informed and also to keep an old mind to check if indeed my favorite producer did not perform well in the year 2004 and to some extent in 2011.
So I just do that. I know it is perhaps of waste of money - but that is another topic for discussion. Different strokes for different forks and please feel free to disagree.I gave you an extreme example - I never like George Mugneret-Gilbourg – CdVougeot 99 which I paid ($135) each bottle for them - they are still laying down in my cellar.
There is an another example…I often do mini-vertical with the same wines from the same producers. So…I do need wines from vintage from 2004 and from 2011. I treat wines from my favorite producers as if they are my grand-children. I do not throw them away…just because they cry !! ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
You own thousands of bottles of burgundy that is extremely impressive.
But…may I ask you a small question ? How bad is the 2004 vintage for red burgundy ? What should be your reply ?
Michael…I know your love to burgundy wines - but well informed and with lots of experienced ? Please do not take my question and/or comments as offensive 
…as they say - there are always two sides of any coin !
******To support my favorite producers (normally they are micro vignerons ) I am a firm believer that there is no so called *bad vintage years * in Cd’Or. One one of the key basic - very personal view for enjoyment of of opening a bottle of red burgundy wine - is : when and for what purpose to open that particular of bottle.
In other words…I buy…less of the same wines from 2004 and 2011. Why…to see if my friend Bill N …is right or not !! Or…simply : why Madam Leroy declassified and not DRC ?? ***
Jonathan,
I was sort of in the same boat when I started into Burgs, I really struggled to see what all the fuss was about until I had a really great bottle,
In 2000 we opened a 1978 DRC RSV and it blew my mind and made me re evaluate my entire way of thinking about wine. I have been chasing the dragon since then.
Machael…just to be clear. I mentioned here is this board often that I do many burgundy wine tasting events of comparative tastings et.c…etc…under different titles for different purpose.
Please note that I am always the wine provider and all the participants are all my invited guesses for all those wines events. In other words I paid for all the wines for that event and maybe we share the food costs.
My guests are all always very polite. Once in a while, they ask me for permission to bring a bottle to share for a special purpose. We often do DRC wines during Lunch with Dim Sum but that was long time ago when you not need to have allocations to buy them.
I am sorry that you took what I said as an insult when it was meant as a compliment. I thought that when I said you have as good an approach to wine as anyone here that it would have clearly meant that you have knowledge and experience. I don’t see how anyone could possibly have a great approach to wine without knowledge and experience and of course you have those. I certainly did not mean my post as being condescending, I meant it as a compliment and as the truth.
Sarah…sorry to get into this.
I double check what Howard wrote…I sincerely believe that he shared the same views as yours !!
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Condescending is almost always unintentional. It is a reflection of attitude. That doesn’t make it better. I think you misunderstand. It isn’t an insult I perceive. It’s a non-compliment disguised as a compliment. Believe me - other people see it that way as well. You’ve said you respect my passion and approach, once you praised my “enthusiasm.” These are non-compliments. They are common words used to avoid true compliments. If you meant knowledge and experience, why didn’t you use those words? You never have.
Don’t get in the middle. This isn’t about any point of agreement or disagreement. It’s about ongoing respect.
Sarah, I just complimented your knowledge, but I will put you on ignore and hope you do the same to me so that you won’t have to read my posts anymore. I am not looking to argue with you and if you want an argument, look for someone else.
It is too bad that people cannot handle respectful criticism or examine themselves to the goal of being a more understanding person. I’ve never been anything but respectful, even when being critical. And I’ve always examined myself to see how I could have done it better. It’s a shame that another adult cannot handle the same critical eye.