In addition to others: to try a good 1er Cru Cote-de-Nuits from 2007 is a good idea - it should be fully mature and singing.
Better than youthful vintages like 2009, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15 and younger
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I am not familiar with Potinet-Ampeau. Sorry.
Jonathan, I’m also new to Burgundy, and starting to explore it.
Instead of trying a few high-icon wines with tons of expectations, perhaps you should just take it easy
and start to explore the region. Try wines from all the different villages, red and white, and different producers
who make wine in different ways. Read some, try to explore what the differences are between reds from Nuits and Beaune, or
try to learn what style of Burgundy you like. Compare a generic regional appellation wine to a village wine, then to a 1er Cru etc.
I’m personally mainly buying Beaune reds and some white. But due to, and thanks to, members here I’m now trying
to buy some different Nuits reds as well.
If I was on the other side of the Atlantic I would happily try to setup some tastings. Hopefully you can get some help from
members on here who live in your city.
this is really thoughtful and valuable advice.
I think everyone’s experience of Burgundy is different. I started drinking the wines and then worked into everything else, and it was very much the wines that drew me into it. I certainly had no clue who Gerard Potel was when I had my first bottle of old Pousse d’Or, let alone had an appreciation for how atypical it was. And yet…
My Burgundy experience has been significantly enriched by visiting the region, reading about it and experiencing various aspects of it. But, at the end of the day, what they make is wine. If you love it or hate it, no amount of culture will change that. I’ve been to Long Island plenty of times, but hasn’t seemed to increase my enjoyment of its fine assortment of Chardonnays. Everyone has their own path to Burgundy, and it doesn’t have to start with history or an understanding how grand crus are assigned (I’m exaggerating for effect, to be clear). If anything, to me, it can be counterproductive because certain wines carry expectations based on their name or appellation. How many people starting out in Burgundy buy on site over producer, after all?
To be clear, Dennis, I am not at all suggesting you are wrong - I fully appreciate what you’re saying. As Kipling once wrote, there are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays, and every single one of them is right. I think that’s true of Burgundy too. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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Of course… there are different ways to travel to anywhere or to everywhere.
For the road to burgundy…hmmm ![[bye.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/9/984858d1d14f8b2f351499080ee63857219b69ad.gif "bye"){kind=small}
I think Kevin Shin has some 09 Mugneret Gibourg Clos Vougeot available for around the top of your price point; that was drinking spectacularly last time I tried it this year. I think trying a top tier grand cru would be instructive.
Yes - Michael has a good suggestion that will get him into trouble all his wine life.
Bumping this up here with a few things that stood out, and are easily sourced from nearby shops, and in the $200-$400 range. Obviously this is a bunch of options, and there may not be one right answer. But if anyone’s familiar with any of the list below, if any of those stand out, would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks so much,
- 96 Corcia Mazis Chambertin Hospices de Beaune
- 98 Fourrier Les Cherbaudes
- 99 Ponsot Griotte Chambertin
- 04 Ponsot Chapelle Chambertin
- 04 Rousseau Les Cazatiers
- 05 Jadot Mazis Chambertin
- 06 Bertagna Clos St. Denis (never really heard of this producer?)
- 08 Damoy Chapelle Chambertin
- 11 Lignier Aux Combottes
- 14 Domaines de Lambrays Clos de Lambrays
- 14 Lignier MSD 1er Cru Vielles Vignes
The Ligniers and the 99 Ponsot should be very good. Rousseau did not escape the 04 greenness (the CsJ I tasted recently was like pickle juice). 11 is also a dangerous vintage for green notes, but the Ligniers I’ve had haven’t been green. That’s said, 11 does pose risks.
I believe William has posted that 14 saw a step up in quality for Lambrays; could also be a good choice.
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been following this thread for the past few days as it’s such a good question. and as a fan of burgundy, i think it’s a worthy endeavor, both from a pleasure standpoint but also pure learning and curiosity. but days later… i have made zero progress on what i’d recommend to you!
i totally appreciate the idea that somehow wine geeks are supposed to “get” burgundy (or any region for that matter, but burgundy is obviously famous and important, for lack of better words, and therefore attracts more attention). price and lack of availability make things more difficult still.
but i keep going back to the simple strategy of … just drink what you can find and see if it rings a bell. focusing on certain producers that seem famous/important i think can easily take you off track because the chances of buying something that’s supposed to be great and then finding it to be the opposite are extremely high! don’t confuse the fact that the very best burgundies tend to be expensive with the hard fact that there are too many burgundies that are very expensive that are not very good at all. in fact, compared to other regions, this common effect may be most severe for burgundy. and here’s another fact, that seems paradoxical with the above; there’s more better burgundy now than in any time in history! so it’s potentially a great time to dive in.
which brings us full circle to just drink and learn. remove expectations or legend from the equation and let it just come to you. thankfully, you live in NYC and surrounded by fantastic opportunities to buy wines at restaurants and great retailers from folks that have tons of information to share. you probably have all the sources, but feel free to email me if you’d like some specific directions.
and keep us posted!
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I would avoid 2004s like the plague and probably would not buy a 2011 without a recommendation. Fourrier, Ponsot, Rousseau and Lambrays are excellent producers. Which Lignier are you seeing?
2011 Hubert Lignier Aux Combottes. Specifically recommended by a Somm who works w/ the shop that carries it, though of course I know next to nothing about this.
The 2014 Hubert Lignier is at another shop, just says “MSD 1er Cru Vielles Vignes.” Would that be a blend of various Premier Cru vineyards?
Yes, it’s a blend of two of his 1er crus and generally considered his best 1er cru.
Yes. 2016 Hubert Lignier Morey St Denis 1er VV - best sub $200 burgundy out there? - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers The reason I asked about which Lignier is because there are different Ligniers. Hubert makes excellent wines. I have never had wines from Georges Lignier but he does not have as good a reputation.
Good advice. There are no epiphanies in wine. Search - drink - take notes and don’t sweat if a wine isn’t breathtaking. Most wines are good, a few bad, and perhaps you never find that 1 bottle in a lifetime. So what? It’s about the journey. You’re on the right path.
Update here: Purchased + drank the 2011 Lignier Aux Combottes.
It was pretty great. Needed an hour in the decanter to come alive, but then strong dark fruit, lots of earth/mineral/leather, a little bit herbal/vegetal/stemmy (but I think I like it that way??? And still really tame compared to, say, Loire CF), and a little preview of something savory/tertiary that awaits with more age.
Just totally a different thing from all the normal, <$100, bright red Burgs I’ve had.
Even my friends who only moderately care about this stuff found it the best bottle of the night (alongside a '15 Joly Clos De la Bergerie, an '00 La Lagune, and some La Rioja Alta).
I don’t know that I can spend this kind of money on a weekly basis, but I’m absolutely convinced to do it periodically.
My Burgundy eureka moment happened on my first trip to Burgundy. When walking the vineyards, strolling through the postage-stamp-size towns, terroir and “sense of place” just hit you over the head. It never really made sense to me until I was walking down from Clos St. Jacques in Gevrey and seeing Rousseau situated just across the street. At its best, Burgundy wine is incomparably “authentic” – wine that’s true to variety and vineyard, with centuries of tradition baked in. I’ve been to a lot of wine regions, but never have I been somewhere that so dramatically increased my appreciation for, and enjoyment of, the wines themselves. I believe firmly that you can’t really “get” Burgundy – and certainly can’t maximize your enjoyment of it – if you haven’t spent time pouring over vineyard maps.
With respect to what to drink, I think the only answer is “everything.” Taste everything you can get your hands on and don’t assume that you’re supposed to like the same producers that everyone else does. I may be an outlier, but I don’t find Burgundy to be a minefield at all. I derive great enjoyment from most Burgs I taste. And I like a ton of it across the spectrum – from stern traditionalists like Lafarge and Gouges, to open-knit pure-fruit-ists like Fourrier, to bruisers like de Courcel, to oakier producers like Laurent, to glossier producers like Pousse d’Or, etc. I like a ton of what the big negociants are turning out and a whole range of stuff from outside the Cote d’Or. And there are a lot of, humble, rarely discussed producers making uber-satisfying wines. And I’m not talking about “up-and-comers” or insider picks. I’m just talking about podunk producers who have been making wine for a long time and turn out some pretty tasty stuff that works for me. The more you taste, the more you’ll find your sweet spot and your pet favorites.
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Hmmm… on the contrary.
To support my favorite producers (normally they are micro vignerons ) I am a firm believer that there is no so called *bad vintage years * in Cd’Or. One one of the key basic - very personal view for enjoyment of of opening a bottle of redburgundy wine - is : when and for what purpose to open that particular of bottle.
In other words…I buy…less of the same wines from 2004 and 2011. Why…to see if my friend Bill N …is right or not !! Or…simply : why Madam Leroy declassified and not DRC ??
I wish I still own some 2004 and maybe I should check with Stewards and see if he still owns some Rousseau from vintage 2004 ?
Meh, I own thousands of bottles of burgundy and don’t own a single bottle of 04. I have maybe 5 total bottles of 11. No point in buying vintages I know I won’t like.