Bob’s thread on glazed bagels got me thinking about authenticity. When most people think of an authentic bagel, they think of a chewy (but not bready) bagel that’s boiled and then baked, and either plain or topped with sesame seeds, poppy seeds, onion, or salt. I enjoy those, but I happen to love some of the bastardizations that pass for bagels as well.
Then there’s pizza. There’s no pizza I love more than a classic neapolitan margherita with buffalo mozzarella, san marzano tomatoes, basil, and salt, but we have a place in Portland that makes a KILLER cornmeal-based thick crust pizza. An opinionated friend declares that the latter “is something, but it’s not pizza.”
And then there’s pesto, the subject of endless internet debate. Some call any spread that’s made in a similar manner “pesto”, while others demand that only the classic recipe of basil, garlic, pignoli, salt, parmigiano-reggiano, olive oil, and butter qualifies as “pesto”.
Where do you stand? Are you a purist, or are you okay with the likes of Hawaiian pizza, blueberry bagels, and wild mushroom and parsley pesto? And is there value in authenticity for authenticity’s sake?
I think it wholly depends on the item. In your examples any sort of sweet thing added to a bagel is an abomination to me. That’s what muffins and donuts are for. With pizza I’m an omnivore, just no fruit or white sauce please. Pesto is one of those things where I don’t see the point to all of the varieties because they get pretty far from actually being pesto…which I suppose is similar to how I look at bagels but not quite as staunchly.
I think overall I might have more freedom allowed for dishes versus items or specific things like sauces. There are lots of ways to make salad but only very few for cream gravy.
well, I am Sicilian and perhaps pizza’s number one (oh, oops, sorry Melissa) I mean number 2 fan. While I am not necessarily into the pineapple and ham take, I do like a Chicago Deep Dish on any occasion as much as I would enjoy a Neopolitan on any other.
an analogy jumps to mind from this past weekend: i was down on key west and had a burger at Cheese Burger with Guacamole on it: perhaps not the ‘authentic’ burger, but a good take nonetheless.
A bagel is a bagel and I wouldn’t want lox & cream cheese on one with all that stuff like glaze, raisins etc. I’m more of a traditionalist for most foods, there are some that it’s ok to alter. No fruit on my pizza either and I don’t like strange stuff in my Latkas, Knishes or Matzoh Ball Soup.
To me there are variations on a theme, then there’s hijacking a name so far from it’s original meaning that it’s silly. Pesto is a good example - I could see other aromatic green herbs being called, for example, a Cilantro Pesto and I could see a different nut being used. But to label every puree of vegetables a pesto is silly.
Names indicate what something is and specific names mean it’s THIS and not THAT. The problem is… where’s the boundary. I was watching Iron Chef America last night and Moromoto did an amazing dish that was piece of naan with seared tuna, red onions and other things on top. Was it a pizza? Well, no, but if you were going to describe it you might well say ‘he made this little pizza of naan, seared tuna, red onions…’
I guess to me the latter useage is descriptive - it’s LIKE a pizza, pizza is used as shorthand for the style of food.
Lets put it this way…I moved to San Diego after living in NYC and NJ my entire life…I get my bagels sent via overnight mail from H&H…and my smoked fish from Zabars
I’m pretty much a traditionalist and a pedant. Witness my rants about anchovies in Caesar salad, and Melissa knows how I feel about pineapple on pizza. It pisses me off when restaurants make a Reuben with pastrami or a Cobb salad with ham. I won’t eat salad dressing that comes from a bottle and steaks cooked past medium rare might as well be given to the dog.
All that said, and the glazed version is truly disgusting, I like cinnamon-raisin bagels. I put peanut butter on them. Sort of a variation on shmear for the goyim, but then a cinnamon-raisin bagel is goyishe in itself, is it not?
I like authentic. I don’t live by it though. I love the Margarita pizza as well, someyimes nothing else will do. (last night was one of those times). I agree with the pesto, but I’m with Cris when he says it sometimes depends. I make a rack of lamb that is fantastic as a finger food, with it is a mint pesto dip. Wow. Perfection never tasted so good. Funny thing is I was never a fan of mint with lambe before this.
As someone who loves to cook and eat Italian food, I strive for authenticity whenever I can. Sometimes the ingredient is impossible to find, and a stand-in is needed. My Cesaer Salad is one of the most requested items in my home. I use mayo in place of the raw eggs.
I wont use jarred sauces. All my sauces and rues are homemade. Sometimes when I have time I make lots of chicken stock. Some of the locally available stuff is very good though. I usually cut it with 15-20% water.
I love the traditional bagel. Tougher and tougher to find in the outer boroughs these days.
A schmear with some lox and onions and I’m…happy.
I am a traditionalist. Hey, there are some good variations on seafood sauces out there; call them anything you want, but don’t call them remoulade when they are made with catsup.
Pretty much a traditionalist. In addition, while I do hit and enjoy the “froo froo” Michelin starred restaurants every so often when abroad, my natural tendency is to go for old, traditional French country fare. Same goes for wine: typicity matters to me a lot, but I can also appreciate modernity within bounds of reason.
