I’ve never had an auslese before and I’m looking for some purchasing guidance. I love riesling, sweet wines, and botrytized wines (though I’m aware not all auslese involves botrytis) so I know vaguely what I’m getting myself into.
Here are the specific wines I’m choosing between:
'16 Willi Schaefer GD #11
'16 Schaefer GD #14
'19 Schaefer GD #11
'19 Schaefer WS
'19 Weister-Kunstler Gaispfad
'19 Wei-Ku Steffensburg
'20 Wei-Ku Ellergrub
'21 Wei-Ku Gaispfad
'22 Wei-Ku Gaispfad
'19 Lauer Kupp
'22 Lauer Kupp #10
'23 Lauer Kupp
'01 Selbach-Oster GD
'07 JJ Prum WS
My main questions are around vintage, drinking window, and stylistic variation across these producers. Obviously most of these wines are less than 10 years old, with the exception of the last two. Since it’s my first time trying an auslese I figured starting young(er) might be a good idea, so I have some context once I do try an aged example; however I’m a little concerned about finding one in that dead 6-10 year window. Is this a valid concern, and if so, should I go for a '21-23 over a '16-20? Should I just go for an older example right away?
Any details on auslese styles between these 5 producers are appreciated, as well as notes about these specific cuvées, how well any of these are drinking at the moment, and how well the producer’s style might have synced up (or not) with each given vintage. I will say that in general I like lots of acid, even within the context of German wine, but I’m open-minded and eager to try any remarkable wine, as I’m sure all of these are.
See if you can find a younger Prum Auslese and compare the two side by side.
Other great producers of Auslese include Maximin Grunhaus, Reinhold Haart and Schloss Lieser.
Love the wines for Willie Schaefer but a lot of times they don’t taste as rich as they are when young. Richness is hidden somewhat by acidity. If you get one, get tee GD 2019. IMHO, 2016s are too low in acidity. A key to a great Auslese is the sweet and sour interplay which requires great acidity.
2007 is a relatively easygoing vintage, so that Prüm may be a very good place to start. I have not tasted that particular Selbach in many years, but I suspect it’s close to mature. Maybe go there next.
Unclear if you are going to be limited to just one bottle for a special occasion?
Otherwise, you have a long life of Auslese drinking ahead of you!
So many places to start, and it really doesn’t matter. I’m sure you know the generalities of the producers/vintages. So just pick whatever you like and then buy more from that producer/vintage/region and the fun will evolve…
If you can only buy one: 01 Selbach Oster Domprobst. The 2001s are the best vintage of my lifetime and I’m a 76 baby.
If you can buy two: the Selbach and the 16 Schaefer Domprobst #14 - this looks like it might be a selection of the “regular” Domprobst Auslese (#11) and it would be fun to side by side the same vineyard.
If you can buy 3: The Selbach, Schaefer #14 and the 07 Prum. This would get you wines at 10, almost 20 and 25 which would be a nice range.
I find 2001 to be supremely underwhelming, especially with all the hype. The stuff they make these days (2021+) is far, far superior. This is just my humble opinion. I’m not trying to offend anyone or stir the pot.
Are you referring to a specific producer or German wineries in general?
If the latter, when did you start tasting 2001s? We’re now 20+ years out, so the bottle variation based on storage is going to be huge. I’ve had underwhelming bottles from the retail/restaurant list world where storage was clearly an issue.
For the superiority of recent years, I suppose you might make an argument that winemaking has ‘improved’ in some respects. But the recent vintages are also so hot and heavy (even 2021 is not really a throwback to the regal elegance of vintages like 2001), that many folks do think back fondly on that electrically elegant vintage that has not been replicated since. Of course those who like bigger wines now have many choices!
To be fair, it’s only been a handful of times. Always excited to try a 2001, but that excitement is soon replaced by disappointment. Nothing flawed, just mediocre wines. I certainly could be having an unlucky streak of 2001 (like 2017). To give you an example, I had a 2001 Prum WS next to a 2022 Prum GH (nearer to when it was released) and it wasn’t even close. The 2022 was absolutely spectacular, still one of the best I’ve ever had. The 2001 was ‘meh’, and that’s being generous.
Also, I’ve never had an old(er) wine with the ‘electricity’ of young, whatever that is. The sweeter the wine, the more that electricity is needed. The best Auslese I’ve had are very young. As of now, that would be a '24, so if I was OP, I would pick up that '23 Lauer.
Edit: My recommendation would be pick up these two:
I don’t know how to answer that because I think I like young Riesling better, until I have an older one that simply blows me away (2009 Ludes Kabinett trocken comes to mind - unreal). That said, I have yet to have a 2001 that moves the needle. By all means, invite me over and show me the error of my ways!
Well it’s all personal preference. I would note that 2009 was a softer lower-acid vintage than 2001. (Not that a Ludes Kabinett trocken is going to be a ‘soft’ wine, but still…) So that may also play into your preferences.
I don’t keep up on older vintages as much as others here, and I’m not particularly concerned with ranking vintages. But 2001 was the first vintage I tasted on release, so it sticks with me. And the elegance of the ripeness has not been repeated since, so I find it ‘special’ in that sense. But plenty of great wines every year!
So interesting. Now I’m even more confused, because ‘soft and sweet’ is exactly how I would describe the '01 Prum WS, whereas the '22 Prum GH was like an electric flower shop in liquid form. I really have no idea what to think about Riesling anymore…
Odd choice of flighting. Young wines have tons of energy and acidity that has the tendency to overwhelm anything old next to it. That’s also why we do flightings from old to young.
Not sure which 01 Prum WS you had but I’ve had multiples of the Spätlese, Auslese and GKA and they are all absolutely outstanding - among the best Rieslings I’ve ever had. But if I popped a 2019 Schaefer GD Kabi next to it I probably couldn’t taste anything from the 01.
As noted above, you have lots of comparisons going on, across vineyards/vintages/places on the aging curve.
Older wines will be mellower than younger wines, so the lack of aggressive acidity might make them seem ‘softer’. But I find it hard to imagine the scale of the fruit was not bigger in 2022.
Could be that you don’t like it when riesling gets out to a certain point in the aging curve, and of course that will vary across producers/bottlings/vintages. Only way to get a good handle is to keep sampling!
It wasn’t actually a flight, just two that i had within a short window of each other. But this thread has been huge for me, because I am now 100% certain I like Riesling as young as possible. Thank you!
