Auction craziness!

[k_s_h_i_n]

I just read a TN of the 03 Charmes on CT. “This is classic old fashioned Burgundy at its best. Wine like this just isn’t made anymore. To connect with a true Burgundy, and if you had to break the bank to try a Jacky Truchot wine, do it.”. There is no '03 red Burgundy that is old fashion, IMO. I brought this to a dinner and served blind a while ago and people thought this was a domestic Pinot (corrected). It appears that Truchot can do no wrong. There are some excellent Truchots but the wines are no where near Jayer’s.

[Howard_Cooper]

@k s h i n

I just read a TN of the 03 Charmes on CT. “This is classic old fashioned Burgundy at its best. Wine like this just isn’t made anymore. To connect with a true Burgundy, and if you had to break the bank to try a Jacky Truchot wine, do it.”. There is no '03 red Burgundy that is old fashion, IMO. I brought this to a dinner and served blind a while ago and people thought this was a domestic Chardonnay. It appears that Truchot can do no wrong. There are some excellent Truchots but the wines are no where near Jayer’s.

I have had a number of Truchot 2003s in the last couple of years and the wines are very typical Truchot if not better. These wines are in the class with his 1990s, 1993, 1999s, and 2005s, some of the best wines he has ever made. His wines from 2003 are still very young and need another 10 years to really mature, but they are becoming fabulous, in a way I would not have predicted 10 years ago.

I am not sure what the purpose is of your red herring in comparing his wines to Jayer, but if you think his 2003 Charmes tastes like a domestic Chardonnay you have no palate.

Maybe you would be happier with more Parkerized Bordeaux.

[ehrlichdy]

@Howard Cooper

@k s h i n

I just read a TN of the 03 Charmes on CT. “This is classic old fashioned Burgundy at its best. Wine like this just isn’t made anymore. To connect with a true Burgundy, and if you had to break the bank to try a Jacky Truchot wine, do it.”. There is no '03 red Burgundy that is old fashion, IMO. I brought this to a dinner and served blind a while ago and people thought this was a domestic Chardonnay. It appears that Truchot can do no wrong. There are some excellent Truchots but the wines are no where near Jayer’s.

I have had a number of Truchot 2003s in the last couple of years and the wines are very typical Truchot if not better. These wines are in the class with his 1990s, 1993, 1999s, and 2005s, some of the best wines he has ever made. His wines from 2003 are still very young and need another 10 years to really mature, but they are becoming fabulous, in a way I would not have predicted 10 years ago.

I am not sure what the purpose is of your red herring in comparing his wines to Jayer, but if you think his 2003 Charmes tastes like a domestic Chardonnay you have no palate.

Maybe you would be happier with more Parkerized Bordeaux.

Howard,

There are kinder ways to express a difference of opinion. Way to keep it classy.

[Howard_Cooper]

@ehrlichdy

@Howard Cooper

@k s h i n

I just read a TN of the 03 Charmes on CT. “This is classic old fashioned Burgundy at its best. Wine like this just isn’t made anymore. To connect with a true Burgundy, and if you had to break the bank to try a Jacky Truchot wine, do it.”. There is no '03 red Burgundy that is old fashion, IMO. I brought this to a dinner and served blind a while ago and people thought this was a domestic Chardonnay. It appears that Truchot can do no wrong. There are some excellent Truchots but the wines are no where near Jayer’s.

I have had a number of Truchot 2003s in the last couple of years and the wines are very typical Truchot if not better. These wines are in the class with his 1990s, 1993, 1999s, and 2005s, some of the best wines he has ever made. His wines from 2003 are still very young and need another 10 years to really mature, but they are becoming fabulous, in a way I would not have predicted 10 years ago.

I am not sure what the purpose is of your red herring in comparing his wines to Jayer, but if you think his 2003 Charmes tastes like a domestic Chardonnay you have no palate.

Maybe you would be happier with more Parkerized Bordeaux.

Howard,

There are kinder ways to express a difference of opinion. Way to keep it classy.

I know Kevin does not like Truchot wines and is often critical of them and I don’t really care. Each person can like the wines he likes and I often do not like the same wines as Kevin. But to say if tastes like California Chardonnay is just silly. I am sorry if I went too far, but this was not a very sensible post.

[Jurgen_Steinke]

Howard,

do you see any chance to switch off the “rude modus”?

[Peter_Chiu]

Howard
“That’s what I do. I drink wine and I know things.”


The more I drink burgundy the more I realize I know less…

[A_So]

@Jürgen Steinke

Howard,

do you see any chance to switch off the “rude modus”?

Guy just gets triggered whenever someone says Truchot is less than the greatest thing on god’s green earth.

[David_Bu3ker]

You may not like Howard’s comment, but Kevin’s post makes no sense.

[Peter_Chiu]

@k s h i n

I just read a TN of the 03 Charmes on CT. “This is classic old fashioned Burgundy at its best. Wine like this just isn’t made anymore. To connect with a true Burgundy, and if you had to break the bank to try a Jacky Truchot wine, do it.”. There is no '03 red Burgundy that is old fashion, IMO. I brought this to a dinner and served blind a while ago and people thought this was a domestic Chardonnay. It appears that Truchot can do no wrong. There are some excellent Truchots but the wines are no where near Jayer’s.

I agree with David also…

Who are those people ??


**** I brought this to a dinner and served blind a while ago and people thought this was a domestic Chardonnay****

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Howard Cooper

I know Kevin does not like Truchot wines and is often critical of them and I don’t really care. Each person can like the wines he likes and I often do not like the same wines as Kevin. But to say if tastes like California Chardonnay is just silly. I am sorry if I went too far, but this was not a very sensible post.

Howard,
I like Truchot a lot. I will put them as one of the best domaines in MSD along with Dujac and L Hubert. Considering the high yield, it is incredible how good the wines are.

My comparison to Jayer is valid in that the Domaine no longer exists and the price has gone up through the roof. Like you, I bought the 03 and 05 GCs for $50 per bottle. I am not so sure whether you were at the dinner but I served the 03 CDR or Charmes blind and everyone guessed it was a Californian Pinot. BTW, Chardonnay was a clear typo.

[Peter_Chiu]

…Kevin.

Just would like to let you know that lately I went back to buy some Vieux Chateaux Certan ( as the Burgundy g-crus are getting too pricey for me ) - thanks to reading your comments and TNS.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@D@vid Bu3ker

You may not like Howard’s comment, but Kevin’s post makes no sense.

The 03 Burgundy taste like just that, 03 Burgundy. If someone posted a TN for the 03 RC, I would have said the same thing. I did bring the 03 Truchot CDR or Charmes a while ago and everyone thought it was a cali pinot.

I also think that comparing to Jayer makes the perfect sense based on the current auction prices of Truchot.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Howard Cooper

@dcornutt

This is kinda sad for those who enjoy the wines. I had a chance to drink my share back in the early 2000 era. Then you could get these wines for no money. Enjoy one of the best Burgs out there while DRC was going crazy in price. Roumier too. Now those days are past.

There will be another superstar here soon. It is fun to speculate who that will be. Until then, tasting these wines will be only memories or due to the largess of a rich friend.

Fortunately, a lot of Truchot is not with the rich but with the people who bought them when the prices were reasonable and have held onto them. These are the long-time Truchot lovers. I doubt a lot of these people have been selling Truchot. I know I have not.

Well, it is still sad for those of us who have never had the wine and now likely never will

[Howard_Cooper]

@Neal.Mollen

@Howard Cooper

Fortunately, a lot of Truchot is not with the rich but with the people who bought them when the prices were reasonable and have held onto them. These are the long-time Truchot lovers. I doubt a lot of these people have been selling Truchot. I know I have not.

Well, it is still sad for those of us who have never had the wine and now likely never will

Neal, I completely agree with you. I wish the prices had not gone up. I would rather the prices be the same as they were on release so I could be buying more. My only comment was that I think that most of the wine resides with Truchot lovers, not really rich people. I don’t think the wines trade that much. I remember being at a Truchot tasting around 2001-2003 or so at Arrowine in Northern Virginia where Doug Rosen asked for a show of hands for those who had been buying and collecting Truchot for a long time. I was really surprised at how many hands went up. My guess is that few have been selling these wines - that they are still in the same hands. I bet the same is true for a number of other producers who were not well known until retirement when all of a sudden they got hot and the prices soared. I would think most of the wines are still with the long-time fans who paid pretty reasonable prices for the wine. Contrast that with producers like Petrus, DRC, etc., where my guess is most of the wine is with people willing to spend a fortune for the wine.

[Keith_Levenberg]

Truchot prices are driven by uniqueness of the style (and obviously the vanishing supply), not absolute quality. There is nothing else that tastes anything like Truchot. Lignier is a high quality producer but if they stopped making wine there are plenty of fine alternatives to scratch the itch, not so with Truchot, and that remains the case even if you think Lignier makes the “better” wine. What this means to me is that if you want to experience Truchot there isn’t much need to pony up for the grand crus. The premiers and village wines satisfy in the same way. Vintage isn’t terribly important either. I’ve had most of the 2003 Truchots and they still tasted like Truchot to me, not like other 2003 Burgundies and definitely not like any California pinot noir. Obviously that’s subject to change as the wines change but that was my experience, YMMV.

[RyanC]

@Keith Levenberg

Truchot prices are driven by uniqueness of the style (and obviously the vanishing supply), not absolute quality. There is nothing else that tastes anything like Truchot. Lignier is a high quality producer but if they stopped making wine there are plenty of fine alternatives to scratch the itch, not so with Truchot, and that remains the case even if you think Lignier makes the “better” wine. What this means to me is that if you want to experience Truchot there isn’t much need to pony up for the grand crus. The premiers and village wines satisfy in the same way. Vintage isn’t terribly important either. I’ve had most of the 2003 Truchots and they still tasted like Truchot to me, not like other 2003 Burgundies and definitely not like any California pinot noir. Obviously that’s subject to change as the wines change but that was my experience, YMMV.

I think that’s right. I often think of Fourrier the same way. While the CSJ gets trophy attention, the Gevrey VV and MSD Clos Sorbe suffice to scratch the Fourrier itch for me. Similar with Mugnier’s Chambolle and Marechale.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Keith Levenberg

Truchot prices are driven by uniqueness of the style (and obviously the vanishing supply), not absolute quality. There is nothing else that tastes anything like Truchot. Lignier is a high quality producer but if they stopped making wine there are plenty of fine alternatives to scratch the itch, not so with Truchot, and that remains the case even if you think Lignier makes the “better” wine. What this means to me is that if you want to experience Truchot there isn’t much need to pony up for the grand crus. The premiers and village wines satisfy in the same way. Vintage isn’t terribly important either. I’ve had most of the 2003 Truchots and they still tasted like Truchot to me, not like other 2003 Burgundies and definitely not like any California pinot noir. Obviously that’s subject to change as the wines change but that was my experience, YMMV.

Even as early as in 2009, you thought the 03 Truchots were beauties and not reflecting the vintage chracters much.

I forgot to mentioned that I brought this to a domestic Pinot blind where it was the second WOTN and no one guessed as a Burgundy I believe Maureen was not a big fan of the 03 CDR but not sure if she likes them more now. I find all of the 03s from France and Italy to have a strong vintage imprint.

[k_s_h_i_n]

FWIW, at least around 2009, a lot of people didn’t care for the 03 Truchots including Stuart.

[R_Gilbane]

Ok so with the disclaimer that I haven’t tried the '03 Truchot, what was the domestic Pinot people mistook it for? Seriously I’m not trying to antagonize anyone with the question. I’m just curious is all.

[maureen_nelson]

@Ryan Caughey

@Keith Levenberg

Truchot prices are driven by uniqueness of the style (and obviously the vanishing supply), not absolute quality. There is nothing else that tastes anything like Truchot. Lignier is a high quality producer but if they stopped making wine there are plenty of fine alternatives to scratch the itch, not so with Truchot, and that remains the case even if you think Lignier makes the “better” wine. What this means to me is that if you want to experience Truchot there isn’t much need to pony up for the grand crus. The premiers and village wines satisfy in the same way. Vintage isn’t terribly important either. I’ve had most of the 2003 Truchots and they still tasted like Truchot to me, not like other 2003 Burgundies and definitely not like any California pinot noir. Obviously that’s subject to change as the wines change but that was my experience, YMMV.

I think that’s right. I often think of Fourrier the same way. While the CSJ gets trophy attention, the Gevrey VV and MSD Clos Sorbe suffice to scratch the Fourrier itch for me. Similar with Mugnier’s Chambolle and Marechale.

Agree.