Are "Off Wine Days" a Real Thing? If so, why?

[Michael_S_Monie]

Sarah makes a strong case that it could be natural, albeit unknown, conditions negatively affecting the wines. Perhaps it could be called: terriblior.

[Rodrigo_B]

I think David’s point is a good one. Sometimes that first bottle can throw one off causes one to be overly critical of subsequent bottles.

Another possible thought: there’s some research that suggests that cork taint can inhibit one’s olfactory signal transduction, effectively reducing one’s ability to smell. I’m not sure how much that can carry over into other wines, but that may be one possibility as to why the subsequent wines tasted were ‘off’.

[Alan_Rath]

I’ve long been suspicious about barometric pressure being involved. Not the actual pressure, but changes, rates of change, and directions of change. Much in the same way as one, as one gets older (ahem), can predict that a weather change is coming without even looking at the weather report. Of course, when I look at the barometer, and follow it, I can’t really discern anything in an observational way. And so far, I’ve been too lazy to try to track anything in this regard more systematically, either in terms of how wines show, or in terms of how my joints feel…

And we know that wine and food can taste bad in planes, where the air pressure is quite low. And this dreary weather has brought fairly low pressures. Here are Philly’s for the last few days:
National Weather Service : Observed Weather for past 3 Days : Philadelphia, Philadelphia International Airport

So what do you tell people who live at high altitude?

We spent a week in Santa Fe earlier this year, low pressure and dry. Drank several nice wines, they all tasted exactly as they should.

My leaning in this case would be it’s January 1, how much did they drink the night before?

[larry_schaffer]

I think David’s point is a good one. Sometimes that first bottle can throw one off causes one to be overly critical of subsequent bottles.

Another possible thought: there’s some research that suggests that cork taint can inhibit one’s olfactory signal transduction, effectively reducing one’s ability to smell. I’m not sure how much that can carry over into other wines, but that may be one possibility as to why the subsequent wines tasted were ‘off’.

Wouldn’t it be so much better if we didn’t have to wonder about cork taint, my friend?

Cheers!

[Rodrigo_B]

I think David’s point is a good one. Sometimes that first bottle can throw one off causes one to be overly critical of subsequent bottles.

Another possible thought: there’s some research that suggests that cork taint can inhibit one’s olfactory signal transduction, effectively reducing one’s ability to smell. I’m not sure how much that can carry over into other wines, but that may be one possibility as to why the subsequent wines tasted were ‘off’.

Wouldn’t it be so much better if we didn’t have to wonder about cork taint, my friend?

Cheers!

DIAM to the rescue

[larry_schaffer]

Well played, sir - but how will they age? And will they ‘stunt’ the development of the wine???

Cheers.

[john_stimson]

I’ve long been suspicious about barometric pressure being involved. Not the actual pressure, but changes, rates of change, and directions of change. Much in the same way as one, as one gets older (ahem), can predict that a weather change is coming without even looking at the weather report. Of course, when I look at the barometer, and follow it, I can’t really discern anything in an observational way. And so far, I’ve been too lazy to try to track anything in this regard more systematically, either in terms of how wines show, or in terms of how my joints feel…

And we know that wine and food can taste bad in planes, where the air pressure is quite low. And this dreary weather has brought fairly low pressures. Here are Philly’s for the last few days:
National Weather Service : Observed Weather for past 3 Days : Philadelphia, Philadelphia International Airport

So what do you tell people who live at high altitude?

We spent a week in Santa Fe earlier this year, low pressure and dry. Drank several nice wines, they all tasted exactly as they should.

My leaning in this case would be it’s January 1, how much did they drink the night before?

I’m thinking less about the actual pressure than changes–eg dropping pressure. So you go up in an airplane–that’s a major drop in pressure. what happens to your olfactory cells (the major component of wine “taste”)? Do they swell? In philly, the pressure dropped about 10 millibars between the 31st and the 1st. Is that enough to make a difference? Who knows.

[Nathan_V]

I’ve long been suspicious about barometric pressure being involved. Not the actual pressure, but changes, rates of change, and directions of change. Much in the same way as one, as one gets older (ahem), can predict that a weather change is coming without even looking at the weather report. Of course, when I look at the barometer, and follow it, I can’t really discern anything in an observational way. And so far, I’ve been too lazy to try to track anything in this regard more systematically, either in terms of how wines show, or in terms of how my joints feel…

I’ve experienced the same thing as Sarah, so I have anecdotal evidence. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. Like you, John, I have suspected something going on with barometric pressure but with no empirical evidence other than it seemed like a weird weather day. Yesterday we had really bizarre weather here (almost 80F and feeling like hurricane weather) but wine with dinner (Simone Rosé and Brovia Villero) showed great so I’m a huge [shrug].

Unfortunately, I doubt we’ll have empirical evidence one way or another any time soon.

[Alan_Rath]

And we know that wine and food can taste bad in planes, where the air pressure is quite low. And this dreary weather has brought fairly low pressures. Here are Philly’s for the last few days:
National Weather Service : Observed Weather for past 3 Days : Philadelphia, Philadelphia International Airport

So what do you tell people who live at high altitude?

We spent a week in Santa Fe earlier this year, low pressure and dry. Drank several nice wines, they all tasted exactly as they should.

My leaning in this case would be it’s January 1, how much did they drink the night before?

I’m thinking less about the actual pressure than changes–eg dropping pressure. So you go up in an airplane–that’s a major drop in pressure. what happens to your olfactory cells (the major component of wine “taste”)? Do they swell? In philly, the pressure dropped about 10 millibars between the 31st and the 1st. Is that enough to make a difference? Who knows.

Fair questions, I don’t know either. But the pressure in a plane changes much more than the most severe weather changes. If the cabin is pressurized to 7,000 ft, thats over 200 mb less than sea level. A storm front with a 10 mb change is a small blip in comparison. Even a major hurricane is much less than 200. I am skeptical that weather related pressure changes play much of a part in how we perceive wine.

[Cris_Whetstone]

I’ve experienced this in the past. One reason I don’t find all the weather related explanations viable is that usually when someone is having this ‘off day’ the people around them are not.

Personally, I think its just one of things where some part of us is having an off day. Like those days when we have a random ringing in the ear or headache, etc and can find no good or consistent explanation for it. It’s probably a day where our sense of smell is just off. Being wine geeks we notice it because we use and focus on that sense in ways most people just rarely ever do. A person not carrying out an activity like trying to engage with a dozen wines in a day might not notice their sense of smell being weaker than normal. We might not even notice if its a day where we jut sip a simple wine we are used to with dinner.

[Philip_G]

Causation vs correlation. There are so many factors that could affect how wine tastes from day to day and bottle to bottle. None of the online discussions I’ve seen of flower/fruit/root days look like anything more than spurious correlation to me. The moon being in a given constellation cannot cause a change in the wine or our bodies. Drowning in swimming pools is not related to the number of Nicholas Cage movies watched.

I’ve noticed I have off days but I’ve usually figured there is just something going on with my body, most likely sinus related which would have a direct impact on taste. We had two Pinot Noirs yesterday that I expected to taste better but both were one dimensional: '15 Astor and '17 Rivers-Marie. I saved about a third of each and will try them again today but who knows if changes will be because of changes in my body or changes in the wine or the fact that there are two comets visible in the sky?

[ybarselah]

new years day was warm and humid, rarely ideal. plus it was indeed a leaf day - not ideal. while i don’t religiously follow bio calendar, i will endeavor to schedule top wines around fruit and flower days, for an edge.

a few years ago, a friend and I did a few months of blind tasting w/r/t the bio calendar - we drank wines on our own schedule and based on how we perceived the wines vis-a-vis our expectations, we guessed whether it was a good day (flower, fuit) or bad day (root, leaf). at the end of the 3-4 months, we looked back and we were both statistically “correct” - him much more so (picking the favorable days vs the unfavorable days based on how the wines performed). hardly a rigorous exercise, but enough to make be believe there’s a there there.

that said, this happens to me a lot where on certain nights the wines really show or they just don’t.

happy new year!

[Jay_Miller]

I have no explanation but I’ve certainly have it happen (and not necessarily on when the biodynamic “calendar” says it should).

Seems to happen more often on oppressive summer days but not exclusively.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

I’ve long been suspicious about barometric pressure being involved. Not the actual pressure, but changes, rates of change, and directions of change. Much in the same way as one, as one gets older (ahem), can predict that a weather change is coming without even looking at the weather report. Of course, when I look at the barometer, and follow it, I can’t really discern anything in an observational way. And so far, I’ve been too lazy to try to track anything in this regard more systematically, either in terms of how wines show, or in terms of how my joints feel…

And we know that wine and food can taste bad in planes, where the air pressure is quite low. And this dreary weather has brought fairly low pressures. Here are Philly’s for the last few days:
National Weather Service : Observed Weather for past 3 Days : Philadelphia, Philadelphia International Airport

So what do you tell people who live at high altitude?

We spent a week in Santa Fe earlier this year, low pressure and dry. Drank several nice wines, they all tasted exactly as they should.

My leaning in this case would be it’s January 1, how much did they drink the night before?

As I said, we were in bed by 9, not hungover. No party at all, just a bottle with dinner.

[Tom_DeBiase]

Yesterday we had our annual New Year’s Day treat of bagels, smoked salmon and champagne. We were joined by dear friends, who generously contributed the excellent Scottish salmon and also brought a surprise caviar tasting! The food was all excellent, and we pulled a number of great champagnes to ring in the new year and give us a send off into Dry January. Only problem was that nothing, not ONE bottle, showed as we’d hoped.

Francis Boulard Les Murgiers - 2007 base, some of these have been a little tired lately, but this one was flat and uninteresting after the first few sips. Poured out.

2000 Diebolt-Vallois Fleur de Passion - I was sure it was corked, others disagreed, no one thought it was great. Did not finish.

2002 Diebolt Fleur de Passion - better, but I still wondered about cork and nothing about it was what it has been in the past. Barely finished later in the day.

1996 Deutz Cuvee William Deutz rose - the best bottle of the day and really good with the salmon, but somehow still lacking.

Having been disappointed now several times we pulled tried and trues to continue:

Egly-Ouriet rose - always good, but lacking depth on this day.

Egly-Ouriest VP - I’m used to this being a stunning bottle, broad and elegant at the same time. This was good, but nothing like what I’m used to.

So what was going on? And before someone asks - no, we don’t have COVID. And it wasn’t a pairing problem, since most of the bottles were tasted before or apart from the food. Four seasoned champagne lovers and we were all in agreement that nothing was really “on.” Oh wait - actually, the bottle of Domaine De Boingneres eau de vie de Folle Blanches we paired with the caviar was rock star.

Could it have been barometric pressure? The pressure was pretty average yesterday (I checked), but it was unseasonably warm, as it is today, predicted to drop a lot tomorrow. I’ve heard pressure can affect wine - how? High, low, changes?

Could it have been a root day, or whatever the biodynamic folks consider unpropitious for wine?

Something else?

Even more so, did anyone else have a bad wine day yesterday in particular?

I know that, over the years, I’ve had other days like this, when nothing seems to be working. Sometimes I can say it’s probably just my palate that day. Yesterday, though, we were all experiencing the same disappointments. None of us had been up late the night before, none of us were hungover or sick. If it wasn’t just me, I wonder what it was…

Sarah, Is it possible that the time of day may have had an influence on your perception of the wines. There have been some small studies that show perception variation during the Circadian Cycle. I doubt however that such changes would have such obvious effects that you have mentioned.

Then again it could have just been bad luck.

Tom

[Alan_Rath]

it is possible the cyclic pull of the moon could affect our bodies in some way that could affect our taste.

No, it can’t. I’d have to run the numbers, but I think it’s safe to say that a car pulling up and parking in your driveway has a greater gravitational influence than the moon (and, btw, the moon’s gravitational influence has the same 24 hour cycle every day of the year, regardless if it’s full, new, or anywhere in between).

[alan_weinberg]

why blame all the wines? Blame your palate for an off wine day. It happens.

[Philip_G]

it is possible the cyclic pull of the moon could affect our bodies in some way that could affect our taste.

No, it can’t. I’d have to run the numbers, but I think it’s safe to say that a car pulling up and parking in your driveway has a greater gravitational influence than the moon (and, btw, the moon’s gravitational influence has the same 24 hour cycle every day of the year, regardless if it’s full, new, or anywhere in between).

Probably should have said “might be possible”. The moon’s gravity causes the shifting tides, its gravity has a noticeable affect on planet earth and it is possible it could affect other things on earth like our bodies. But I think other factors are much more likely to cause changes in our taste.

[Alan_Rath]

it is possible the cyclic pull of the moon could affect our bodies in some way that could affect our taste.

No, it can’t. I’d have to run the numbers, but I think it’s safe to say that a car pulling up and parking in your driveway has a greater gravitational influence than the moon (and, btw, the moon’s gravitational influence has the same 24 hour cycle every day of the year, regardless if it’s full, new, or anywhere in between).

Probably should have said “might be possible”. The moon’s gravity causes the shifting tides, its gravity has a noticeable affect on planet earth and it is possible it could affect other things on earth like our bodies. But I think other factors are much more likely to cause changes in our taste.

That’s the “logic” those who adhere to the notion of moon phase like to use, but it shows a lack of understanding of the magnitude of the numbers. There’s a wee bit of difference between the moon’s effect on the oceans on a planetary scale, and it’s impact on your taste buds.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

it is possible the cyclic pull of the moon could affect our bodies in some way that could affect our taste.

No, it can’t. I’d have to run the numbers, but I think it’s safe to say that a car pulling up and parking in your driveway has a greater gravitational influence than the moon (and, btw, the moon’s gravitational influence has the same 24 hour cycle every day of the year, regardless if it’s full, new, or anywhere in between).

Landlubber? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjA2NTJ35P1AhWRd98KHYPhBsUQtwJ6BAgMEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscijinks.gov%2Ftides%2F&usg=AOvVaw1r7HVqkIW2PZ-DNEJc6rw9