Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

WINE TALK
101

I, too, thought that the issue had already been clarified, until Yaacov decided that it “didn’t add up”.
As to why not make a public forum the place to air the laundry, an understandable difference in personal discretion/preference.
Yaacov, I can appreciate your desire to understand the context of a most unusual situation, as well as your poor experience with tasting the wine exacerbating speculative concern.
Wine always has the only word that means anything, and I look forward to your guys pow wow to taste again.
Like I said, I have no doubts, which is why I invited a tasting, knowing full well that zee proof eez een zee poooding.
It is always good to get a Gritty into a thread…
I also learned about that Dune fear quote…good shtuff.

102

curious about this and cursory googling didn’t turn up anything. do you have any information on what customs paperwork needs to actually be filed? is this an annual thing like tax filings in the States? seems a very harsh result to lose AOC status in such a case. i found a reference that, for example, Pontet-Canet lost AOC status on their second wine but that wasn’t because of paperwork, rather a panel tasting?

103

I believe it is much more frequently than just annually.
I don’t know precisely how many/how often, but from what growers tell me, the amount of compulsory paperwork has only increased, rendering what was already cumbersome plain oppressive.
I’m not 100% sure, but I believe that every time that you move wine (rack or move to tank), sulfur, treat the vineyards, top off barrels, discard/sell off in bulk, in essence any measurable action needs to be reported in quantitative terms.
I will try to ask about it more formally next time i’m over the pond.
Perhaps some euro growers can chime in?

104

Well we could ask Ray to chime in…

105

understood, thanks for the clarification. that does indeed seem onerous. so benetiere failed to do the above and that is the sole reason they were denied AOC status? wow.

106

It is somewhat like a license to do business, all paperwork current. Once/if that falls away, it is just a matter of time before you lose AOC status, as though you had died/no longer exist. Once you get square with the douane, you apply for and are then reinstated by the INAO, the agency that handles AOC status.

107

so if you die/no longer exist, you’re still able to sell wine as VdF (which is still obviously regulated)? And if so, how do those sales get accounted for?

108

If you are able to file regularly with the douane, you exist and aren’t dead.
You can then sell wine as VdF (meaning your wine comes from anywhere in France whatsoever), unless you apply to the INAO to use more specific appellation status.
Call the French embassy.
They will get you in touch with someone who can satisfy your needs.

109

so if i have this right, the ability to sell wine comes from douane but the ability to label a wine made in cote-rotie as AOC “cote-rotie” is determined by INAO through their local testers and lab samples (exclusively) - i.e., the actually bottled wine must conform to the standard set by INAO. whether that is allowed by INAO has nothing to do with the paperwork filed with douane - do they even speak with each other? so the de-classification can be done voluntarily by the producer or that decision is mandated by the INAO. this seems like cut-and-dried and part of everyday winemaking in France.

1 Like
110

Perhaps Yaacov, it’s time for you to interrogate Benetiere rather than Robert.

111

he’s the expert. and i don’t speak french!

112

To the best of my knowledge, you have the right idea.
It is a fairly straightforward, cut and dry kind of thing, where your first standing is with the French national government in general, then the INAO for a more specific identity.
Like with appellation status in most countries, the producer always has the right to declassify, that is to say call a wine a lesser appellation (you can call declassify a 1er cru to a Bourgogne level or VdF wine or you can call an Auslese a Kabinett or an even lesser gutswein), but you can’t bump a wine up the hierarchical ladder.

113

In America, any wholesaler must first be licensed by the Federal government with an importer’s license, then one applies to the state in question for a state wholesalership. A relatively similar kind of tiered licensing process.
If one lost one’s Federal license for whatever reason, one would then lose their state license.
Not apples to apples whatsoever, but an illustration to help you understand, and hopefully sleep at night (so that Gritty can haunt your dreams).

114

Turns out, Yaacov was right.

I’m currently in the process of getting any 2015 Benetiere we did sell back for credit/exchange, and have sent remaining inventory back to the local distributor. This isn’t an isolated occurrence, as multiple wine professionals in my orbit have voiced similar concerns and either passed on their allocations or sent it back as well. It remains to be seen what’s actually going on at the winery, but something ain’t right.

115

That is certainly concerning…

116

guess we’re gonna have to try one ourselves this weekend. See if it’s a Polaner batch issue or a winery wide issue.

117

Right in what way: the tasting? the inquisitor?

118

I drove through rush hour traffic to my warehouse to get a few bottles to taste, once again, to see if my very nice first experience of the bottles I imported was a fluke.
Not at all…
This bottle is showing even better out the chute than the bottle I tried a month ago.
The cork is pristine.
The color is spot on.
The wine’s aromatics are even more expressive on pop and pour than before, whole cluster spice/funk and violet pastille character even more in place than a month ago when it was more reductive/grumpy. In hyper-sensitive connoisseur/pro fashion, I can tell that there is some VA, but quite subtle, and I am quite sensitive to VA and brett.
It is texturally silky, with intense floral violets dominating in flavor, with dark berry/ripe raspberry toned fruit.
It is very elegant and harmonized.
We (my wife and I) are following it over a light dinner of wild rice, sauteed swiss chard w garlic, and sauteed mushrooms.
My wife, who is a welcome relief to my hyper sophisticate sensibilities, can’t possibly imagine what problem people have with this wine. When she smelled it, she said it smells nicely fruited with a spice/leather component (the whole cluster…). In the mouth, silky and delicious.
I do not wish to discount the experiences of others.
But based on what I have now tasted twice, this is gorgeous wine, in Pierre’s finessed style.
Time will tell what is going on with the Polaner bottles.
But the ones that I have, at least from two different cases that I have tasted, are terrific.
Not knowing the details of the handling for Polaner, my bottles were reefer imported, then driven down from the same facility where Polaner has their stuff arrive in my vehicle in the cool, directly to my cold warehouse.
I have also brought bottles of '13/'14 Dolium home to taste, as well as a '15 Riollement.
I will add those tasting notes when I get there.
Fu will be chiming in sooner than later, I imagine, as he will have the same lineup in his possession tomorrow.
Respect to Pierre.
Respect to transparent, honest, responsive communication.

119

Thanks for sharing, Robert

120

Narrator: he doubled down.

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