Anyone seen, gotten, or received any 2015 Benetiere yet?

[David_Bu3ker]

Fear is the mind killer…

Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration

[David_Bu3ker]

Looking forward to trying one of my bottles. Bring on fall shipping season!

[CFu]

I approve of the sacrifice.

Of course, I would pop one of my own, but shucks, they are safely nestled away in Panzer’s nice storage facility . . . . But otherwise, I would do it in the spirit of the Board. Would not blink an eye.

Same. If I could it’d be in the decanter already.

[David_K2]

No lot indication but you can easily see the original label underneath !

Ah yes, the famous Benetiere butcher cover!

[David_Bu3ker]

[Greg_K]

I know. But it was more similar to yacov’s note than just a normal ungiving wine

Got it.

I don’t have much experience with Benetiere. Maybe I will open one young…

Sacrifices must be made

If anyone in NYC is up for it this week, I’m sure we can arrange it.

[Jayson_Cohen]

Fear is the mind killer…

Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration

I will face my fear.

[ybarselah]

I’ll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

panzer, i didn’t call because i’m not sure what we would discuss - so the innuendo of me not calling you isn’t a thing. that said, since you mentioned it, can you please elucidate on the how and why a producer would lose AOC status for a particular wine? seems like a rather harsh result, but perhaps it’s fairly typical?

[Markus_S]

I’ll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

Where’s that?

[Greg_K]

I’ll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

panzer, i didn’t call because i’m not sure what we would discuss - so the innuendo of me not calling you isn’t a thing. that said, since you mentioned it, can you please elucidate on the how and why a producer would lose AOC status for a particular wine? seems like a rather harsh result, but perhaps it’s fairly typical?

Tempting…and I believe I do know where you live!

[Robert_Panzer]

I figured you had questions just like the one you just asked, or like you were vaguely implying with your “intuition”.
It is a matter of staying current first and foremost with your standing/declarations with the douane (customs); if you don’t, by default after a period of time, you then lose standing with the AOC.
Any wine in your cellar/winery that is not still in barrel during that phase of not-up-to-speed-with-paperwork, be it bottle or tank, of any color, is thus not allowed to wear the AOC banner.
So, when he fell behind with his declarations for the '14s and didn’t straighten it all out until earlier this year, the '14, '15 and '16 vintages all fall under that bureaucratic “in the dark” period.
Since the '17s and '18s are still in barrel, they are fine to be called Côte Rôtie once bottled.
Once square with customs in the late winter/early spring, but not in the AOC club, they knew that they could have labeled the wine under Vin de France. But they wanted to see if they could get the '14-'16s back on track with the AOC.
They appealed to the AOC folks, who eventually came, inspected, and tasted the bottled wines in the late spring. The gentleman who did so found everything in order, the wines sound (fwiw, independent lab analyses are submitted with your declarations), and went back to the mothership with every intention of reinstating even the bottled/tank wines. But Pierre was at the end of it all denied, the straight line bureaucracy staying its course.
This is how Marie explained it to me.
Make sense?

[Ramon_C]

I’ll have a bottle open at my place tomorrow early evening if anyone wants to stop by.

panzer, i didn’t call because i’m not sure what we would discuss - so the innuendo of me not calling you isn’t a thing. that said, since you mentioned it, can you please elucidate on the how and why a producer would lose AOC status for a particular wine? seems like a rather harsh result, but perhaps it’s fairly typical?

Tempting…and I believe I do know where you live!

Tempting, too, … and I believe I can conveniently walk to where Yaacov lives.

[Robert_Panzer]

Drink the wine over at least two days.
You’ll see…

[ybarselah]

Drink the wine over at least two days.
You’ll see…

thanks for the additional information, all of which much better out in the public vs a private phone conversation, wouldn’t you say?

the requirement to taste a wine over 2 days to determine if it’s good, however, is not a thing. it would make it obviously useless for any restaurant to stock it. or is this unique to the 2015 benetiere?

[David_Bu3ker]

Most people in restaurants are not nearly as picky as Berserkers.

[Robert_Panzer]

It is not a requirement to see if it is “good”.
It is a recommendation to see just how good it is.
I don’t think that I need to defend the reality that very young wines will show more depth and layers with time and air; i’d make the same recommendation for nearly any “serious” young wine, from anywhere.
That’s like fine wine lover 101 material.
The idea that all wine needs to be pop and pour restaurant immediate gratification worthy is silly. (once upon a time, restaurants would stock wines for the longer haul…cash flow is king, so turn and burn is the mantra, as long as you get your silly gouging markup)
And no, airing Pierre’s troubles in a public forum is not better. It is TMI that doesn’t respect his privacy and efforts.
I sent the info to those who had purchased the wine, as they have a vested right to know. That is an appropriate audience, IMO.
But the greater public at large doesn’t need to know everything.
Your irresponsible public aspersions sort of forced the issue.
You don’t seem to want to take personal accountability for anything you say, playing dumb/innocent even though you are a very smart man.
In Philly no nonsense style: grow up, or shut up.
May Gritty haunt your dreams.
(if I were more technologically savvy, i’d insert a picture of Gritty here…a little help, peanut gallery?)

[ybarselah]

It is not a requirement to see if it is “good”.
It is a recommendation to see just how good it is.
I don’t think that I need to defend the reality that very young wines will show more depth and layers with time and air; i’d make the same recommendation for nearly any “serious” young wine, from anywhere.
That’s like fine wine lover 101 material.
The idea that all wine needs to be pop and pour restaurant immediate gratification worthy is silly. (once upon a time, restaurants would stock wines for the longer haul…cash flow is king, so turn and burn is the mantra, as long as you get your silly gouging markup)
And no, airing Pierre’s troubles in a public forum is not better. It is TMI that doesn’t respect his privacy and efforts.
I sent the info to those who had purchased the wine, as they have a vested right to know. That is an appropriate audience, IMO.
But the greater public at large doesn’t need to know everything.
Your irresponsible public aspersions sort of forced the issue.
You don’t seem to want to take personal accountability for anything you say, playing dumb/innocent even though you are a very smart man.
In Philly no nonsense style: grow up, or shut up.
May Gritty haunt your dreams.
(if I were more technologically savvy, i’d insert a picture of Gritty here…a little help, peanut gallery?)

sorry, i don’t follow this logic at all. you’re arguing that the mixup is a result of bureaucratic paperwork, something that everyone can appreciate as part of our daily lives. and while very annoying, totally benign. why would those facts be better off hidden from the larger wine community? and if they are, merely asking a few questions got you to change your mind on this issue? i have purchased the wine, and previous vintages as well. to my mind, my so-called vested interest is having whatever relevant info out there for anyone that might be interested. there’s no cover charge necessary to learn about wine.

btw, grew up in philly… here’s gritty for yiz

[Robert_M_yers]

from the importer so public knowledge now… Due to an administrative oversight, 2015s and maybe 2016s will not be Cote Rotie but rather VdF. They failed to file some required paperwork, which led to a long bureaucratic nightmare. They were unable to release the wine until this was all settled. awaiting the new VdF labels. don’t anticipate seeing the wines before summer’s end.

Didn’t you guys already go over this in May 2019

[David_Bu3ker]

Yeah, but that requires reading page 1.

Imagine if Benetiere had dug an irrigation trench.

[Dennis_Borczon]

Don’t…go…there