Allemand vs. Chave

[John_Morris]

One factor in the pricing: Allemand produces about 1,000 cases a year, while Chave bottles 2,000 to 2,500 cases of Hermitage rouge.

[Robert.A.Jr]

@RyanC

Where does the Gulf Coast fit in?!

Florida Gulf Coast best. We are already talking about it. Your presence is expected!

[LasseK]

I heard both Allemand and Chave taste better in Copenhagen. You should definitely do the event here.

[Robert_M_yers]

@M.Kaplan

add a spot for Frank Balthazar

Don’t forget the one off Balthazar made from Juge’s vines

[Scott_Brunson]

@john_stimson

For me they are different animals. I love and prefer Chave, but only once it’s pretty old (eg, 20-25 years plus). Young Chave for me is much less distinguished than old Chave. So if you will be buying new releases, and are not extremely patient, I’d buy Allemand.

I would almost be willing to give up Burgundy for a cellar of old Chave.
Not really, but I’d def take the cellar of old Chave.

[M.Kaplan]

The rumor that Balthazar made the last vintage (2015) of Juge? I’ve not heard that it has been substantiated. Do tell!

[Robert_M_yers]

2015 Balthazar from Juge vines.

Has anybody had this bottling? SommPicks has some bottles and after inquiring they told me the how it came to be. Supposedly Balthazar helped Juge farm/harvest the 2015 vintage and for only this year he put some fruit from Juge vines into a single barrel and labeled it as Cornas (not the Chaillot). Now that Juge has retired he puts the the Juge material into the casimir bottling from 2016-present. Seems pretty unique/cool so I bit on a few. Does anybody have more info or an experience with this…

Your post made me think about these which I had forgotten. I’ve not tried it yet, should probably pull one and give it a go now.

[Peter_Valiquette]

I consumed a bottle of the 2015 Balthazar/Juge Cornas a few years ago without realizing what it was. At the time (2019) the wine was so heavily reduced and gamey that it wasn’t terribly enjoyable for my palate. My note is on CT.

Of course I now wonder what could have been if I’d known what it was and let it age for a few years.

[ToddFrench]

BTW, event posted in Event Planner

Chave vs Allemand (vs Reynard vs Jamet?) - Republique, L.A. 9/30/23

Republique, Los Angeles, September 30, 2023 7pm @CFu booked us a room at Republique in Los Angeles, limiting to 12 people only - each is to bring a 2012 or earlier bottle of Chave, or Allemand Reynard and we’ll see who wins. Bring more if you can or want, so it’s more of a contest, so ideally bringing 2 each is wonderful, but perhaps not realistic If many people are LEGITIMATELY interested we can have a Battle of the Berserkers, have simultaneous dates in other major metropolitan areas, so pe…

[Mike_Evans]

Do you mean potentially Chaillot and not potentially Reynard?

[Robert.A.Jr]

@ToddFrench

BTW, event posted in Event Planner

Chave vs Allemand (vs Reynard vs Jamet?) - Republique, L.A. 9/30/23

What’s that?

[B_Buzzini]

Just had the 11…amazingly elegant and full of floral right now!

[ToddFrench]

I have a lone bottle of '11 Chaillot I was thinking of bringing to the event!

[YLee]

You guys totally highjacked this thread.

[ToddFrench]

Yeah, partly my fault…I’d move the posts into the Event Planner but some are a bit intertwined…

That said, can everybody post about the event in the Event Planner thread, not this one, from now on? The question the OP posted remains ‘unanswered’

Here’s the link to the event thread, for those who need it again

Chave vs Allemand (vs Reynard vs Jamet?) - Republique, L.A. 9/30/23

Republique, Los Angeles, September 30, 2023 7pm @CFu booked us a room at Republique in Los Angeles, limiting to 12 people only - each is to bring a 2012 or earlier bottle of Chave, or Allemand Reynard and we’ll see who wins. Bring more if you can or want, so it’s more of a contest, so ideally bringing 2 each is wonderful, but perhaps not realistic If many people are LEGITIMATELY interested we can have a Battle of the Berserkers, have simultaneous dates in other major metropolitan areas, so pe…

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

Berserker Days and these types of offlines sometimes, always?, make me sad I’m so far away… Enjoy and post!!

[ybarselah]

i often see references to JL Chave not being as good in modern vintages. Can someone with experience explain when this happened and how/why? Huge Chave fan, but haven’t yet tried any of my younger vintages… say 2005 forward.

TIA

[Kris_Patten]

Chave is great, but different. More powerful, higher alcohol, and more fruit since 2003. Stylistically it has separated from some of the Chave followers style preferences up to 2001 when it was sterner and more linear acid driven expression of Syrah.

Last '86 I had still needed some time to resolve.

[Alan_Rath]

I think you can describe four different phases of Chave (at least wines that you’re likely to encounter today). The Gerard phase, until mid-90s. The current Jean Louis phase. And overlapping that is the old cellar vs. new modern barrel room. I’ve been in the old cellar, which is/was a typical ancient cellar, with all the gunk, cobwebs, mold and dust you’d expect (or at least not be surprised to see). Have not been in the new barrel room, but from pictures it looks spotless and modern. The wines seem to reflect both the differences in winemaking to the father and son, and the cellar environment itself, with wine of this century being cleaner (and in some ways less interesting) than wines of the last century.