Here is a question for the more experienced Burgundy drinkers on the board. How do you think about the various ::blank::-Chambertin Grand Cru vineyards? Some are quite affordable when compared to other Burgundy grand crus, but I don’t see them lumped into the “inexpensive grand crus that shouldn’t be grand crus” (like Corton, and sometimes Clos Vouegot).
I have lots of questions:
What sort of character do these wines have? Are they very different from each other? If so, how do they differ? Do you think they are of true Grand Cru status? Why are they priced as they are? Do you think they represent good value? Any particular producers to seek out?
And of course, any other related thoughts are welcome.
To be clear, I’m referring to Chambertin-Clos de Bèze, Chapelle-Chambertin, Charmes-Chambertin, Griotte-Chambertin, Latricières-Chambertin, Mazis-Chambertin, Mazoyères-Chambertin, Ruchottes-Chambertin
Focus on producers not vineyards. At the highest end there is Rousseau, but there are lots of other producers making great wines from one or more of these vineyards including Roumier, Mugneret-Gibourg, Trapet, Rossignol-Trapet, Jadot, Pierre Amiot and Cecile Tremblay. However, they each make wines in their own style. Try wines from different producers until you figure out the producers you like best in a price range you are willing to pay.
I second Inside Burgundy 2nd edition by Jasper Morris. I also second to focus on producers which Howard listed. Generally speaking yes there are G-C grand crus that are lumped into “inexpensive grand crus that shouldn’t be grand crus”. The difference imo compared to Corton and Clos Vouegot is you have more producers making wine.
Imho all 9 GCs are capable of producing great wines worth the status, but not all producers do, in fact more do not …
I’ ve had fine wines from all 9 GCs … and a lot of disapointing ones from all 9, too …
As written above producer is key, but usually the GCs are superior to the 1er Crus in the same cellar ( with exceptions) …
I’d rather buy a good 1er Cru - than a GC from a weak producer just for the status …
… and don’t forget that Gevrey wines need time in the cellar …
I’d add that in your list Clos de Beze shouldn’t really be lumped in with the rest. Most producer’s Clos de Beze is priced around the same as their Chambertin, and usually scored similarly by most critics. Whereas all the others you list are typically priced lower and scored lower.
It seems the market says that the others your list are worthy of true GC status, above those that are said to not really deserve Grand Cru staus, but below the top GCs such as Musigny, Richebourg, or Chambertin. Perhaps similar (at least in price and scores) to Clos de Beze or Clos de Lambrays. I do agree that a key difference is Clos Vougeot and Corton have way more producers than the Grand Crus you mention, and in turn a way larger surface area with many more soil types and micro-climates, which could in part explain the more variable quality and reputation of the lesser Grand Crus.
Drink the wines. There’s really no substitute. Also, you’re unlikely to get an agreement from people as to who the best producers in Gevrey are (probably other than Rousseau), so I wouldn’t use Howard’s list as gospel.
I’m also going to assume producer is important not just because they do better cellar work and work in the vineyard, but also because they control better parcels within the Grand Cru.
Denis Bachelet’s Charmes-Chambertin is highly regarded, but from what I have read (and I may be wrong), his parcel of Charmes borders Chambertin. So, I’m guessing a big reason his Charmes would be better than Charmes from other producers is because of his parcel, and not necessarily just because he does better vineyard and cellar work (though I’m sure his work on both scores is impeccable). It’s going to be hard for other producers to compete with parcels that are downslope.
In contrast, my understanding of Clos St. Jacques is that the 5 producers in that cru all own parcels that extend from the top of the slope to the bottom. I’m assuming most would say Rousseau’s is the best, but because the parcels are more similar to each other, I’m guessing that’s a big reason why Clos St. Jacques from all of the producers are considered high quality.
In other words, I’m guessing the reputation of a particular cru’s quality versus others depend a lot on the types of parcels producers own. Because Charmes has producers that own vines from weaker parcels, and thus there are wines labeled Charmes that aren’t so great, that is part of the reason why Charmes is consider one of the lesser grand crus. But, because Clos St. Jacques has a “consistency” to it across producers because they all own similar parcels, it now has a reputation for being a super premier cru.
Not the whole story, of course, but I’m guessing that is a part of the reason certain crus get their reputations.
My personal, and likely idiosyncratic take, is that most often G-C Grand crus aren’t worth the extra tariff. I’d rather have 2-3 bottles of CSJ than one bottle of any of the grand crus. Also, if I were to pay up for a grand cru, I would generally prefer one from another commune. That’s not to say that I haven’t had some wonderful G-C grand crus, but there is also a fair amount of potential disappointment out there as well, unless you have tasted the wine prior to purchase, or have locked on to a reliable and consistent producer.
All of the Gevrey Grand Crus are worthy of GC status, because there are people that make GC worthy wines from all of them. You wont get any arguments about Chambertin-Clos de Bèze and Chambertin and all of the usual suspects will pop up if you ask this board for their favourites. Faiveley make wonderful Latricières-Chambertin and Mazis-Chambertin and the wines are still procurable at a reasonable tariff. Leroy’s Latricières is majestic. Dugat-Py make a Charmes-Chambertin and Mazoyères-Chambertin, that are true vin de Guarde, showing what can be done with old vine material from these ‘so called’ lessor Grand Cru terroirs. Ruchottes-Chambertin is wonderful in the hands of Rousseau, Roumier and Mugneret-Gibourg. Chapelle-Chambertin from the likes of Trapet and Trembley are some of life’s great pleasures and Griotte-Chambertin from Ponsot and Drouhin can be pretty special.
So it all comes down to producer… again. They are all different from each other, but the producer thumbprint is perhaps stronger than the terroir imprint.
I am guessing that the major reason Bachelet’s Charmes is better than Charmes from other producers is because he is a better farmer and winemaker than most others are. I have had other wines from Aux Charmes that are not nearly as good as that made by Bachelet, and I have had great Charmes Chambertin from producers (e.g., Truchot) whose plot is in Mazoyères-Chambertin.
If it was all the vineyard location, how do you explain how good all of Bachelet’s other wines are?
It was actually re-listening to the I’ll Drink To That Podcast episode with Jasper Morris that made me ask this question. And sure, books are useful, but I find the collective wisdom on this board to be incredibly valuable. At least as valuable as what one individual might have to say in a book (even if that individual happens to be Jasper Morris).
And yes, in an ideal world, I’d taste many of the producers in all these crus, but that is a prospect that would take way more resources than I have. I’m at a place in life that I will buy somewhere between zero and two bottles of [fill in the blank]-Chambertin GC per year. I was asking for recommendations of specific producers and specific crus so that I might better hone in on what to buy. And perhaps stimulate some interesting conversation. See below.
Thank you, Jeremy. This is exactly the sort of advice I was looking for. Much appreciated!!!
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