Alternate title: an ode to cardboard tubes
I recently finished converting a basement closet in to an actively cooled cellar (and before somebody asks, yes, I used a vapor barrier and insulated). I was going for maximum storage efficiency in a small space. For me, this meant minimizing space taken up by non-utilitarian racking. In reading this board, I came across several threads that had bits and pieces of information. Sometimes that information came down-thread from a related topic like PVC tubes or general cellar organization.
This post has links to the relevant past discussions, links to some very helpful websites, and a list of tube manufacturers mentioned in other threads. I hope this is helpful for others who go this (vastly superior!) route in the future.
Q&A that come up down-thread in other discussions:
Q1) What inside diameter should I use?
A1) This is where cardboard shines, and where you can really maximize space efficiency. Almost all non-champagne and non-pinot bottles will fit in to a tube with a 3.5 inside diameter (id). For me, this has included American rhone ranger types (bedrock, once & future) and wider body spanish bottles. A 3.6 or 3.7 diameter tube would be slightly more universal, if the final outside diameter (od) works for your space (see Q3).
I also set aside a section for tubes with an id of 4.0. This has fit all champagne and pinot bottles that I have that would not fit in the 3.5 id.
Q2) What thickness should I use?
A2) I used 0.098 inch thick walls and have stacked them as much as 9 high. The weight above ends up very evenly distributed and I have not seen evidence of them becoming misshapen. I would consider going thicker, depending how you think about Q3)
Q3) Why are storage dimensions and OD numbers important?
A3) If you can manage your storage dimensions, you can dramatically increase the number of bottles that fit in a rectangular bin. Itās a little bit like being on time or late for a flight: if you get to the gate before the door closes, you are fine. If you are even 1 minute late, you miss the flight. For storage, if you go event 1/10 of an inch too big, you can miss out on an entire row or column of space.
Example: My closet space was 79" wide. The shelves I build had 3 pieces of 3/4 in plywood (sides and center support), meaning i ended up with bins that were (79-.75*3)/2 = 38.4 inches wide. If the outside diameter of my tubes is 3.8 inches, i can fit 10 wide. If they add up to 3.9 i can only get 9, reducing my total capacity by 10%. In my space that would add up to the difference between storing 800 and 900 bottles. You can do a little algebra here: if you have an extra inch or two, you can increase the wall thickness or inside diameter until you nicely fill the space. This is also one reason why custom made tubes are better than pre-made cardboard or PVC.
Q4) How long should the tubes be
A4) Depends on how deep (single, double?) and how comfortable you are with bottle necks sticking out). You really only need them to be as deep as the flat portion of your longest bottles. For single racking, that is about 9". Yes, Riesling bottles are longer but they start tapering quickly.
For double bottles, I measured combinations of different bottle types and found that at 18.5 inches, even the longest combinations are stable. This takes in to account the savings from fitting the first bottle neck in to the punt of the second and for the short flat surface of doubled up Riesling bottles (despite no punt). In hindsight, I might have gone an inch longer as I am finding a few strange long and skinny bottles (priorat, a few BdM) that stick out further than I would like. They are still stable but it makes me nervous looking at them.
Q5) How space efficient are we talking about here?
A5) Extremely. Depending on your exact storage dimensions, you might even be more efficient that flat pack boxes. The reason is that by nesting rows in a honeycomb pattern, you gain about 1/5 the diameter of a tube for each layer you nest. The link below goes to a calculator that shows how many circles can fit in to a rectangle using either a grid pattern or a triangle (honeycomb) pattern. In my case, a 38" wide, 27" tall rectangle can fit 70 circles in a grid pattern or 76 in a honeycomb, an increase of almost 10%. The calculator does not take in to account a trick: there is nothing to say you canāt mix and match. I found I had an extra 1.5 inches vertically, so I was able to do 3 rows of grid stacking (10 wide) before starting they honeycomb (alternating rows of 9 and 10 to fit the pattern).
How many circles fit in a rectangle
In the end, I turned a 79w * 30d * 80h space in to room for 900 bottles.
Q6) Where can I get tubes
A6) You almost certainly want to find a local manufacturer if you can. I purchased 400 3.5 id * 0.098 thickness * 18.5 length and 75 4.0 id * 0.098 thickness * 18.5 length for a total of $497. I picked them up myself and even got a tour of the facility. Freight half way across the country would have been at least another $500. You are shipping large, light tubes of air. Because of shipping inefficiency, there are many small producers of these products across they country. You are likely to be working with a small family business.
This website claims to list many manufacturers, by state:
https://www.cardboardtubemanufacturers.com/category/
Two from Minnesota:
This is who I bought from. Great service!
I got a quote, basically the same prices. They had a few additional sizing options (3.6, 3.7) which would have been nice. However, they told me I needed a dock-height truck to take delivery.
Indiana:
http://www.phenixtube.com/
I have not contacted this one, just copying from a prior thread
past discussions:
