Aging potential for Gruner Veltliner?

WINE TALK
1

Recently had a great 2013 bottling of a single vineyard Brundlmayer Gruner Veltliner shared by a friend. Got it for only $15 on closeout.

I know 2013 was a standout vintage for Austrian riesling and I assume that applies to gruner too, but was wondering what the aging potential is of this grape in general. How does gruner develop over time in its flavor profile?

2

I’d say it can last quite a while, perhaps 20-25 years, BUT (and an important ‘but’) it depends on what you have. I know that’s not too helpful and I’m sure others will chime in the exacting details, but you have to know the ‘level’ the GV is. Producers make some for early consumption, but even under that scenario, 2013 is still very young. Usually agebility is tied to ripeness levels (but not always necessarily so), so a Smaragd should age better than a Federspeil. You’ll have to look at notes and producer to see what kind of wine they have in mind. Good luck!

3

Gruner Veltliner has very good aging potential. Jay Miller opened the 1997 Brundlmayer Alte Reben last night, and it was singing. It’s not my favorite grape personally, but there is no question it can age well and get better with age. The flavors stay largely the same but the edges tend to round out, the acid integrates, and the mouthfeel gets a little richer and creamier in the midpalate and finish. Especially a wine made with old vine grapes.

4

I have a lot riding on Gruner aging potential, so here’s hoping…

5

It is excellent. Here are notes on 4 I’ve had over the past few years:

1998 Weingut Josef Jamek Grüner Veltliner Smaragd Achleiten - Austria, Niederösterreich, Wachau (4/7/2018)
The dark gold color and apricot aromas reflect the botrytis that is common in 1998 Austrians and that I find brings a nice richness that plays well with a mineral edge and refreshing acidity. Still drinking very well, but it has probably peaked. (91 pts.)

1998 Hiedler Grüner Veltliner Maximum - Austria, Niederösterreich, Kamptal (9/2/2017)
Showing the golden color and botrytis that typifies this vintage, with ripe apricot, a little nuttiness, and a hint of grassiness and flowers, it is rich and seems a little sweet but with enough acidity to keep it on the bright side. It is aging very well and I’m in no great hurry to drink my remaining bottles. (92 pts.)

1998 Nigl Grüner Veltliner Senftenberger Piri Privat - Austria, Niederösterreich, Kremstal (8/9/2017)
Pretty golden color, fairly rich, with a little botrytis showing, but with enough acidity to keep it balanced, it is still drinking quite well and doesn’t seem likely to fall off a cliff any time soon. (91 pts.)

2000 Alzinger Grüner Veltliner Smaragd Mühlpoint - Austria, Niederösterreich, Wachau (2/21/2015)
Death by Lobster (Four Seasons Hotel, Atlanta): Great weight and minerality, a little fresh pea, and great acidity, it’s in a good place right now. (92 pts.)

6

I’ve had bottles going back to the ‘50s. The top wines likely age longer than the rieslings of the same cru. I am still cellaring a number going back to 1995

7

Terry Thiese once opined the Gruner was the longest lived white. He imports enough of it that he probably has significant experience aging it.
Best, Jim

8

Gruner will probably age, but will Gruner get better and more complex and interesting, or just more tired and faded?

Same question for Ken Zinns, really.

9

I share Mr Walker’s experience regarding Grüner Veltliner and Riesling – parallel bottlings
from top Niederösterreich estates tasted at 20+ years old find the GVs more expressive than the Rieslings,

…which do not manage the same ageless magick at 30+ years that Mosel and Rheingau can muster.
the GVs do not seem to gain all that much past the ten-year point…

and not all of Austria is the same – the best dry whites from Burgenland are most frequently Chardonnays

nb the finest aged Austrian white in my experience was a 1993 Wösendorfer Kollmütz Weißburgunder Smaragd from Rudi Pichler,
half a bottle remaining on the second day, consumed with the Wicked Mr P at his estate in the Wachau ‘bout five years ago…

10

Again, my memory of Terry Thiese: more complex, more savory with certain mushroom/truffle elements.
FWIW.
Best, Jim

11

I buy a good bit and tend to like them around 8-12 years from vintage, from my experience so far. At that point, the really good ones have opened up a lot and the fruit has subsided a bit, allowing the other elements to be more evident. I think there’s no question that there’s improvement in that time period. Beyond that, they’ll get mature, but it seems to take a very long time. Whether or not a more developed stage is superior to my target window is, I’m sure, based on preference, and I don’t have enough experience to know much about any later stages.

12

Nice
I loved 98s–I wish I had some more.

13

Thanks for the TNs!

14

As Jason mentioned the 1997 Brundlmayer Alte Reben I opened last night was singing. As a generalization I find young Gruner good and exceptionally useful with some foods but lacking a bit of interest.

In contrast with some age a good one will develops a wonderful complexity and creaminess while losing none of its food matching potential. Personally I love it.

My preferred spot for drinking Gruner is from around age 10-30, though that’s based on a very limited sampling on the oldest end of the range.

15

Interesting thread. I have literally never thought about ageing a Gruner.

16

Well - it depends (similar to Riesling) [cheers.gif]

A simple GV from anywhere should be drunk in its 1st or 2nd year in bottle …

On the other hand the best Grüner Veltliner from Wachau (Smaragd) and neighbouring valleys (Kamptal, Kremstal …) can go for decades (20-30 years) easily in a good vintage … they will lose the youthful peppery/spicy components and slowly develop hints of hazelnuts, walnuts, almonds, ripe fruits like peach, mango, mandarine, dry fruits, ripe bananas, even mushrooms, tabacco, hay … “Kletzenbrot” (clay bread?), cold tea …

In many cases a mature GV is not that dissimilar to a mature white Burgundy, at least it is as versatile with food, generally even better than Riesling …
but a Federspiel or a “classic” GV usually should be drunk with 2, 3 …5 years …

17

Appreciate the update on the 1997. I still have some of that along with the 1995, 1998 and 2000 for older vintages.

18

I have a few 95 FX Pichler GV smaragd loibner bergs and durnsteiner kellerbergs lying around. Last 1 of each a few years ago were great. Might try another one and report back.

19

If memory serves me right, Smaragd wines are higher in alcohol than Federspiel. Are there other differences that make the former more ageable?

20

Gruner can age extremely well. The oldest I have had was a 1947 around 2007 so 60 years old. And the cork was shot yet the wine was till good not great. If the cork had held up I think the wine could have been great. I do find that with older Austrian white wines (25+ years old) they do converge to a similar taste profile which is uniquely Austrian and lose some of the varietal character (most Wachau wines).