ADVICE PLEASE! Balancing age, storage, and $$$

WINE TALK
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I recently posted a tasting note for a 2014 Jadot 1er Cru Gevrey that was good but not great. I got the following comment, which really got me thinking:

I am about 5 years into collecting and realize that I have unconsciously been struggling with how best to balance 3 competing principles: drinking wines at an age that will show best, buying at reasonable prices, and finding adequate good storage in my small one bedroom apartment. The 2014 Jadot and Leoville Barton are good examples of this conflict- I bought them bc they were a good price, but I simply do not have a place to store them for years at a time, especially if I want to keep buying wine. At the same time, buying nicely aged examples gets expensive quickly. I have a big EuroCave cellar that holds a bit over 100 bottles, and a smaller WineEnthusiast cellar that holds about 40, which is already a ridiculous amount of storage for my small place.

I have been advise to buy a case of each wine I’m interested in at release so I can “really get to know the wine” and drink it at different ages. Sounds great, but that is just not a possibility given both the storage and financial constraints…maybe I’ll get there one day! But not for a while!

I realize there isn’t a single clear answer on how to best manage these issues, but I also figure that a lot of others must be struggling with the same questions. What are you thoughts? Short of buying a new house, or going to off site storage (which I really don’t want to do), do you have any suggestions?

Thanks as always,
Noah

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Shop at auction for properly aged bottles from regions & makers that are less fashionable (i.e. expensive) than top-name burgundy and bordeaux.

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Hi Noah

  • Apartments can often be restrictive, in there is rarely a cool space, so then you have to consider a wine fridge… if there is space.
  • Offsite is an obvious solution, but I think your caution is good - it’s all too easy to get carried away with buying, if the wines are ‘out of sight and out of mind’
  • Buying pre-matured wines. Joe suggested auction, which is what I used to get faster ‘balance’ to my cellar, but there may be people local to you on this site, who might have mature wine to sell, with the advantage of being more confident on storage. Some shops specialise in getting older wines in, and they can be a good alternative to auctions, as you’ll be able to buy by the bottle. Auction ought to be a lot cheaper, as you are constrained by the lot size, and also there is much less buyer protection. Chances are those shops bought the wine from auction anyway!
  • Buying fewer ‘cellaring’ wines. This was the constraint I stuck with for a long time, when I also had an apartment. The collection for a long time consisted of 6 bottles in a wooden case in the kitchen. Not ideal, and not something I’d recommend as a strategy, but it did help convince me I did want to have wine on hand, rather than popping out to buy a bottle or two for that very evening
  • Finding a trusted friend / relative with better cellaring conditions and asking them if they’d store some wines there for you. Perhaps the trade is sharing the odd bottle with them in lieu of ‘cellaring fees’

I would say ignore that advice about buying in case quantities. It’s simply not practical unless you go for offsite storage and personally I’ve always been a vinous butterfly, so have only gone for case buys at auction, and that pretty infrequent. Mostly I buy in 1a 2s and 3s, as I still enjoy exploring widely.

Considering the wine fridges you have, I’d look for a simple rule
1/3 wines that are there for the long haul, effectively not to touch
1/3 wines that should age for many years more, but should also be ok to drink now
1/3 wines that are made for drinking young, or are already mature

Try to amend your immediate buying to get closer to that balance, even if that means no more long ageing wines bought for the next year (or more). Without such clarity of buying, you’ll find yourself seeking the ‘least worst’ option, which will result in everything getting drunk many years before maturity. Stick to those proportions thereafter, and trust that eventually wines will move from unready to ready.

Good luck. I remember very much these same frustrations, as I was enjoying wine, but feeling I couldn’t practically indulge the hobby in anything but a superficial way. Eventually I started off with an aim of getting about 50 bottles, then a hard limit of 100 bottles that soon became a less convincing hard limit of 200 bottles. Thankfully it never got completely out of hand and indeed there are significant gaps in the two wine fridges now.

Regards
Ian

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What Joe said.

Even if you allocate all of your Eurocave to “long term storage” and you like your wines with ~10 years of age, you can drink less than a bottle per month (on average). I was in a similar situation when I started collecting and the reality is that your storage is only a small fraction of what you would actually need. You’d be much better off buying exclusively back vintages at auction or retail. A lot of times you can find aged wines for about the same or less than current release prices. Plus you’ll understand better what you like and can then make informed decisions when your storage situation improves…

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I mean, really your best bet is to attend more wine events where people are going to open a lot of bottles. I realize that has been hard to do in the last year but hopefully we’ll be able to do it more going forward.

When I was getting started back when I lived in LA, (which wasn’t really that long ago, honestly) I attended a bunch of tastings and dinners and was able to try a wide variety of wines from different vintages and producers. some of them had the winemakers were in attendance. Some of them (like Marchand Tawse and Nicolas Rossignol) I still buy regularly.

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I have been at your level of storage (~150 bottles) for years, only recently reaching ~300 bottle capacity.

About 1/3 of my storage was devoted to early drinking/cellar defender types of wines. These can be replaced vintage over vintage and generally drink well upon release through several years of age. Barbera, Dolcetto, Cotes du Rhone, entry level Chinon/Bourgueil/Saumur, domestic Pinot Noir, Langhe Nebbiolo, Spanish Garnacha/Monastrell, and ‘interesting’ varieties/regions you want to try that are new to you. Also, most white wines! Back vintage closeouts also fit here. Generally these were $15 to $30, though those don’t have be a hard limit. Your WE cellar is perfect for this rotating group.

Another 1/3 went to ‘Drink or Hold’ wines. This is where I’d put domestic Cab, Syrah and single vineyard Pinot Noir, as well as Chateauneuf du Pape, Gigondas, Chianti Classico, ‘cru’ Loire Cab Franc, Bandol, mid-range Super Tuscans, Etna Nerello, Aglianico, Priorat, Mencia (Bierzo), etc. Basically, you won’t feel bad if you drink a bit early though hope to get some bottle age, and for the most part these are wines that should show well 4-8 years from vintage. Half of your EuroCave is for this group.

The last 1/3 is for ‘Hold’ wines. These are your Barolo/Barbaresco, Classified Bordeaux, 1er/Grand Cru Burgundy, Brunello, old school Napa Cabs, Cote Rotie, Hermitage, classic Rioja, elite Super Tuscans, Chianti Classico Riservas and the like. Do not touch until 8-12 years from vintage, preferably longer. The other half of your EuroCave is for this group.

I’ll follow up with a 2nd post on buying strategy . . . .

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You can increase your storage by buying more or larger units, or by going off-site, both of which you prefer not to do.

Without that, I agree with Ian’s comments that you just have to buy fewer wines with the intent of cellaring them long-term. You don’t have to follow the math robotically, but there is no way to escape the math on average, and the math says that storage capacity divided by average number of bottles opened per year equals average cellaring time per bottle. If you have 100 bottles of capacity and you want to cellar your wines an average of 20 years, you’re going to have to limit yourself to pulling (on average) 5 bottles out per year. Or 10 bottles per year if you want an average of 10 years of aging, etc.

So if you want to avoid pulling too many of those bottles when they are surly teenagers, I think what you need to do is decide how much average cellaring time you want for that part of your collection, divide that into the storage space you’re giving that part of your collection, and limit yourself to drinking and (once that space is full) to buying (on average) whatever the math tells you the answer is.

Beyond what your storage capacity allows you to buy for long-term aging, only buy wine to drink relatively soon, be it a new release you want to drink young (and many wines drink just fine within a year or two of release) or a mature wine you find at auction, until you can increase your storage capacity. You can devote a much smaller part of your storage to this part of your inventory, because you should cycle through it quickly. And absent unusual temperature issues in your apartment, you don’t even need to put the young wines you intend to drink soon in the temp-controlled storage. Just put them in a closet.

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If you’re mostly starting out buying and drinking wine seriously, I would not follow this advice. Until you’re more certain as to your palate preferences, this is as likely to leave you checking in on things you like less and and less or things that are past their optimal drinking point because you weren’t sure when to drink them. Especially storage is an issue for you. Also, there’s really no need to buy and store young Bordeaux - you can always buy it in the secondary market for basically the same price.

I think the suggestion Michael made is a good one - buy wines for current drinking and try to go to wine events to drink with other people as you learn what you enjoy. Then, once you decide you like a producer/site/whatever, you can start investing more into long term cellaring, imho.

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Many others are proposing auctions to backfill. I’m not opposed to that, but I have taken a different approach. Especially since I like buying wine on a whim to try something new/exciting/random based on value or region.

A few thoughts:

  • Buy mixed cases (or half cases) from trusted retailers to acquire a variety of different wines. These should be mostly singletons.
  • Don’t buy more than 3 bottles of any single wine–you can divide the 3 bottles between the Drink/Drink or Hold/Hold groups. One for now, one for later, one for much later.
  • If you do go deep (6-12 bottles), pick one wine you have tasted on release, enjoyed, but has a track record of aging. I did that with 2005 Joguet Clos du Chene Vert when I was able to get it dirt cheap in 2009, and have loved sampling a bottle every year or two.
  • Flash sites & closeouts can be useful, but they will fill up space quickly and are best used for the Drink and Drink or Hold groups.
  • Use Cellartracker to assign ‘bins’ to wines based on when you want to drink them. Then you can easily sort and re-allocate wines.
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As others have noted, buying aged wine is often not any more expensive than new releases, outside of very top or cult producers or banner years. You’re near NYC where there are plenty of retailers that sell consigned cellars (chambers, flatiron) plus online retailers like cellaraiders. Selection is of course tougher, you might not find exactly the producer/vintage/bottle you want, but for someone earlier in the exploration that’s not a problem at all. Just get on all their email lists because that’s generally how they release things.

Auction can be great as well. Mixed lots generally trade cheaper than full cases, but that’s perfect for exploring as well. Plus they will usually be grouped in some decent way - eg a mixed case of one producer over a few vintages, or a mixed case if one region in a certain vintage, etc. HDHs last auction had like 200 mixed lots of burgundy (or at least that’s how it felt looking through them).

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The beauty of Bordeaux is that you can find very well stored and mature wines, often for prices less than new releases. Using Leoville Barton as an example, I just bought some 2001 LB for around the price of new releases. Well you will hear a lot of noise in your ears that modern vintages are the best they’ve ever been - very debatable point - I don’t think anyone will debate that it’s is preferable to drink a mature Bordeaux to a young one. I’ll go so far as to say I’d rather drink a mature 90 point wine than a brand new release of the same wine that a critic has anointed a 95 or higher.

So as you go through the thought-process regarding your current status as a collector - and we have all been there too - think about some selective backfills. Also think about offsite storage. Why don’t you try to find a small storage facility where you can buy a locker and stick some of these young Bordeaux in them and just forget about them. The fact that they are offsite, you have to drive to go get them, helps preserve them not being popped in a whim. All of my premium 14s, including that excellent LB, are offsite and won’t be touched until around 2030.

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Lots of good food for thought here, but I’ll throw my two cents in. Given the wines you mention (Jadot 1er, Leoville Barton) you really do have a conundrum. 140 bottle storage sounds like a lot, but to my mind it is clearly going to be a problem. These kinds of wine need 10-15 years from vintage to emerge into still youthful but open charm. And possibly longer, depending on your preferences.

Let’s say you have astonishing willpower and limit yourself to 6 carefully selected bottles of Bordeaux and Burgundy for each vintage. Given the market, you can probably find deals in a handful of recent vintages as well, but still, we’re talking 12 bottles a year, stored for 15 years. 12x15 = 180 and that’s above your current capacity. So you have to limit yourself to even fewer bottles (say 9) purchased per year. Good news for your liver - you don’t get to drink anything for a decade or more as your bottles age! Clearly an unacceptable strategy.

I’d be concerned about the ‘store soon to drink stuff in your closet’ unless you have rock solid A/C. If your apartment gets into the 80s frequently that won’t be good.

So I think there are only two reasonable solutions, depending on your finances.

  • if you can afford it (and we’re talking about a few hundred a year for small storage) go for offsite, put your long agers there, and soon to drink stuff at home.
  • if you can’t, then I’d only buy near term ready to drink bottles - either wine that is good young (plenty of excellent suggestions already) or pre-aged. There is a LOT of this at auction and in retail. Winebid and K&L have frequent small lots, and Zachy’s and other traditional auction houses are doing weekly Internet only auctions with tons of good stuff if you dig through it. In other words don’t try to age the stuff yourself.
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We all struggle, or have struggled, with this. It’s part of the hobby.

Do you have a friend who will let you store a few long-termers in their cellar? That has the additional benefit of putting them beyond temptation.

I never buy at auction; the process is not sport to me, the premiums seem ludicrous, and the provenance is necessarily uncertain. There are a few retailers who specialize in aged wines of the type I like, and for the last few years I have been buying mostly those wines – wines that are ready to drink. The process inherently entails more risk than buying and storing new releases, but that is the trade off forced on you by your space limitations.

So, if I were in your circumstances, I’d (a) continue buying new releases to fill your existing facilities, (b) see if I could find a corner of a friend’s cellar to use, and if that is not available, find a small off-site storage unit; and (c) scour the market for properly aged wines you can open in the short term.

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As the giver of that advice, I’d agree with this and that’s what I was getting at with “unusual temperature issues.” I would have zero concern about storing a young red wine for a month or two in a closet in an apartment that is kept mostly at, say 78 in the summer and 72 in the winter, as an example. I would have more concern if you’re going to store it for three years and your apartment spends much of the summer getting well into the 80s every day while you’re at work (if you do that “go somewhere else to work” thing like we did in the before times), and then back into the 70s every evening when you come home. Between that heat and that fluctuation, you’re going to have issues over that span of time. And I’d avoid areas near the stove or other heat sources like radiators or furnaces, etc.

Whites and pinks for short-term you can always store in the fridge, of course, assuming you have the room.

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Same here, I had a 45 bottle fridge for 4+ years before I finally caved and got offsite. Until then I bought, pretty much exclusively, '80s and '90s Bordeaux that was ready to drink. Also Alfert makes an excellent point about it being a great place to start due to the availability

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BTW, my first response assumed you were sticking to your goal of buying at least some young wines with the intent of not drinking them for at least 10 years after you bought them.

As the math I laid out there tells you, and as many of the other posters have also pointed out, 140 bottles capacity is not easily compatible with that goal. If you can’t get more storage and you can’t limit yourself to a few bottles a year from that part of your stash, I’d abandon that goal entirely and use all of your capacity to store wines to be drunk within 2-3 years of purchase, be they wines you want to drink young or back-vintage wines you bought that already have most of the age on them that you want them to have when you open them.

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As others have noted upthread, if cellar space is precious, don’t expend it on BDX, especially if its large production 750mls. It’s easy to find later on.

Also I don’t think buying solid cases, and then breaking them down and putting them into an apt Eurocave/La Cache etc. makes sense. One small benefit of your storage options currently is that wines are easy to access, so get a spectrum of wines to maximize the utility of your current set up.

Nowadays with internet, auctions, etc. its pretty easy to find mature bottles so you can buy those as needed (and consume as purchased) to learn more about what you like, and what makes sense for your own ‘investment’ of space/time of limited storage. If you have a car, you can also make periodic day or o/n trips to NYC/NJ to pick up stuff from the wide range of merchants in those areas, if shipping gets dicey.

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I have opened over 150 bottles - almost all European - bought from California online auctions with vintages dating back to 1985 and can count the number of flawed bottles on one hand.

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On buying at auctions: Many of us here on WB do. Many don’t. My experience, combined with my friends’ (i.e. many many thousands of bottles purchased) makes it pretty clear that auctions are just as reliable for getting good quality as purchase at retail. Of course, one must take reasonable precautions, and there are many threads on this site that discuss what to look for to manage your risk. Ultimately this is more about comfort zone and approach to wine buying more than anything else. So this one is up to you.

On how much age is the right amount: Unless you’re buying wine to share with me at meals champagne.gif (in which case I will tell you the perfect answer!), this is really extremely personal. So try as much as you can with different ages to find your own sweet spot before buying a ton of wine!

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Dave, thanks for taking my comment in the way it was intended (as adding detail to your good advice). We are in perfect agreement. [cheers.gif]