I dropped them after they crossed the $200 barrier with the 1997.
History of release prices for the Abreu Madrona Ranch Cabernet during the period I was on the list:
1992 - $35
1993 - $40
1994 - $65
1995 - $85
1996 - $100
1997 - $225
The 1997 was an RP 100, which probably contributed to the more than doubling of the release price. I bought it and flipped 4 of the 6 bottles but dropped them after that. Excellent wine, but not worth $200 to me.
Just chiming in to correct a point mentioned above. Brad has been the winemaker at Abreu since the 2000 vintage, not 2010 as mentioned above.
I’m a huge fan of the Abreu wines. I think they are arguably the best Cabernet blends made in Napa every year. But I am sure others may feel differently and that’s fine. We all like different things.
Oops yes 2000. I didn’t proof read my note.
While perhaps a flippant answer, I think it explains it all - for some, myself included, I don’t know that I’ll ever feel that a $500 bottle of wine is worth it. That price will obviously be different for everyone, as with most luxury goods.
While not the most serious of sources, I found this article early on in my wine journey and find it illustrates the topic fairly well: How Buying Wine Compares To Buying Cars | Wine Folly
To each their own ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Ya the article is cool, but I definitely don’t agree with it. There are levels to this wine game ha.
“Ya the article is cool, but I definitely don’t agree with it. There are levels to this wine game ha.”
And that’s what’s awesome about wine - you don’t have to agree and we can each make this journey what we want it to be. For me personally, I find that article provides a reasonable analogy, as there’s a point where quality is maximized and from there it’s preference, specificity, rarity, etc.
Not to further derail this thread, but I’m very intrigued by “…there are levels to this wine game.” What does that mean to you?
Edited because I messed up the nested quotes!
For example. Eisele, Diamond Creek, even Bryant are really good. But I consider Promontory to be above those in regards to quality of wine.
Interesting article, but as seeing as it is now 10 years old, you would have to double the value in each category to make any sense in today’s market.
I’m now in the camp of thinking it’s not worth the tariff. Increasing 100 per a bottle and not including shipping has pushed me over the edge. Great wine, but not worth it to me anymore.
Loved the Abreu that I have had. All have been amazing wines. But, is is worth double the price of Schrader, 3 time the price of MacDonald, nearly double Shafer Hillside Select, triple the price of Monte Bello, or double plus Maybach? For me , the answer is no it isn’t. Very happy to be on the other lists. And even happier to have a friend on Abreu who shares a bottle.
I probably have no business jumping into this thread but since I was on WB anyway, I figured I would add one more perspective to the convoluted topic of value. I really do appreciate reading people’s comments about price, value, etc. I think it’s fair to say our perspectives on price and value are as varied as our palates and taste preferences - others essentially make the same point above.
Zach, Greg, I certainly understand the perspective that the Abreu wines have become more expensive and the natural tendency to compare them to others you enjoy. That’s totally fair and I think we each do that to varying degrees as consumers. The more we taste and explore, the better we can refine our mental map for what’s “worth it” from what’s not. I’ll share my own mental map below in case it adds any helpful context for you.
You can still find some mid 90’s and early 2000’s bottles on the secondary market at prices that I think represent incredible value. If you feel today’s release price is too high, I think buying some of these older vintages at reasonable prices can be one way to still enjoy the pedigree of these incredible vineyards.
Madrona Ranch in my estimation is one of the Grand Cru sites in Napa Valley. David planted it, farmed it for decades and, as of this year, now owns the land. That means a lot to me as a consumer. (It obviously means a lot to me as a winegrower too and that’s why we’ve been investing in land.) David and Brad know that site intimately, they know which sections ripen faster or slower, where they have to manage canopy slightly differently, etc. You only get to those nuances after years of farming for yourself. I’d like to believe we can taste those nuances in the resulting wines but of course this is subjective. I tend to be willing to pay more for estate-grown wines and I place emphasis on sites that have been farmed consistently for decades. I guess the time dimension is worth something to me.
Brad is a talented winemaker and there are many of those in Napa Valley. For me, what sets him apart is the singularity and distinctiveness of his wines. Brad has a meticulous yet instinctive approach that I think is unique to him. Of course the quality of the wines is high - that should be a given at these prices. So I tend to focus more on who’s making truly distinct wines from who’s not. To me, Brad’s wines are distinct.
Own some of the best land, farm it for decades, focus on the details, make wine with a singular approach, prove the wines can age gracefully for decades. In my view, this is why Abreu is legendary in Napa Valley. Are the Abreu wines worth 2x this or 3x that? Everyone’s answer will vary of course. David Abreu and Brad Grimes are two of the best in the business, working with some of the best land in Napa Valley, and they’ve proven that consistently over decades – I think that combination is fairly rare.
Just my two cents!
Thanks for the perspective Scott and I definitely backfill the 90s and 2000s that are relatively priced well. What’s more painful in regards to the price increases is going from the 16 releases in 2020 for 525 a bottle with shipping to 2022 for 625 a bottle without shipping included (2 day air is 65). We all understand the world we currently live in. But at some point there’s a threshold most buyers reach where it’s just too much, especially when comparing to other wines of similar quality.
I just got the allocation email today for the ‘18 Madrona. $591 a bottle is steep for sure. Do people think you’d get kicked off the waitlist for not participating? What about just buying the rothwell hyde?
Good afternoon,
I have read many great things about Abreu wines and got tempted to look for a bottle here in Europe.
In your opinion and among Madrona Ranch, Thorevilos, Cappella and Las Posadas, what would be the best bottling to discover the estate? Any vintage recommendation as well?
What is the personality / tasting profile of each vineyard?
Thanks for your insights!
All the wines are great but some of my best experiences have been with aged Thorevilos, such as 2007. Even with age, these wines still need to be decanted for several hours before they really start strutting their stuff.
Someone brought an '04 Thorevilos to dinner a couple of weeks ago and it was not good at all. Thick, fat, no apparent structure or acidity, and it tasted like a chocolate milkshake. I like chocolate milkshakes, but not in my wine.
I had an 04 Theo that was decent but not great 1.5 years ago. Maybe just the vintage?
Here’s the question: how does the new bottling (Tilting Rock, blend of Thorevilos and Las Posadas) compare on the QPR front? At $225/750 ML, it doesn’t necessarily need to be earth-shattering. But, considering the winemaker and vineyard sources I’d be very surprised if it didn’t land squarely in pretty elevated territory.
FWIW, I really don’t know what people see in Abreu. The wines would be fine at ~$100-120, but for many dozen or so I’ve tasted, I’ve never had any I would pay a penny more for.
I would have to somewhat disagree. I have had some underwhelming ones for sure, but I’ve also had ones that were simply outstanding.