Hi everyone, a few quick questions here about my favorite Chinon producer.
Has anyone tried their “l’Or d’Olga” chenin? It’s on their site, I’ve seen a couple Instagram posts about it, but AFAIK it has not yet reached the US market. Would love to know how it compares to their Champ-Chenin, which I really quite enjoy.
How long can their Les Peuilles age in a good vintage? I’ve had a whole lot of Les Picasses, and I love it, and for my palate, the older the better there. I’ve yet to find a Les Peuilles any older than 2016.
What is/was Le Popliniere, how does it compare to their other wines? Not much info out there. From the little I’ve read, seems it was meant for drinking young, but I’d like to just source one bottle as a curiosity, even if it’s dead.
The L’Or d’Olga differs in several ways; while Champ-Chenin is fermented and aged in stainless steel, L’Or d’Olga is vinified in a mix of barrels and foudres, aged on the lees for a year, with some bâtonnage along the way. So it is a completely different style. The last vintage I tasted was the 2018, which had a much more waxy and honeyed concentration (although not overtly oaky) character compared to the 2018 Champ-Chenin (which I thought had that disconnect between physiological maturity and sugar maturity that you can get in years with warm end-of-season weather).
I won’t be so much use on the other two as it is not a domaine I follow religiously; I have experience with older Picasses but not the other cuvées. Don’t really know Les Peuilles.
Le Poplinière I know a little better. The fruit came from vines close to the Loire on deep alluvial soils of sand and stones, typically up to 5-8 metres deep in this region. Like you I always regarded it as early-drinking, but I haven’t seen a bottle for many, many years.
Wish I could help here but other than the Champ Chenin, I’ve not see the other two on our shores. The Champ Chenin, especially with lots of time, is a fun funky beast.
My wife and I were able to try the '18 Champ-Chenin and '18 L’Or back to back when we visited the Domaine in early May. Full disclosure: neither of us is especially well-versed in Chenin, and I have a lousy memory. But my wife did take notes:
Champ-Chenin: mineral, pair, stones on the nose; unripe pear on the palate with nice acidity and a medium finish (89).
L’Or: Flint, smokiness, unripe pears on the nose; much more complex than the Champ-Chenin on the palate, notes of wet stones (91+)
We liked the L’Or a good deal and used one of our precious spots in my suitcase to bring home a bottle (we had to travel very light that trip, so no Winecheck).
We were told L’Or is entirely from Les Picasses vineyard. Apparently there has been a small amount of Chenin grown there forever and the 5th generation of Raffaults finally decided to make a commercial bottling from those grapes. We were told 7-8 months in barrel, about 2,000 bottles made and they expect it will age well for 10 to 15 years.
Thanks James + Chris- good to hear that my primary concerns (too much oak + too much 2018 ripeness) seem to not be an issue here.
I’ve had some 40 year old Champ-Chenin. Found it lovely, and really strangely young for its age. Gonna keep track of if/when the l’Or hits the shelves over here in NY.
A local wine shop is offering 2007, 2008, and 2009 “Les Picasses” for $68 each. Does that seem reasonable? How are these vintages generally rated? Sorry for the thread drift.
The winery evidently has back inventories and releases them periodically. Hence the older vintages that we see with some regularity.
I bought a bottle of the stupendously great '89 Les Picasses in Kingston, NY, three years ago for about $80 or $85, so that $68 doesn’t sound unreasonable. I don’t know those vintages.
I had '07 at a restaurant not long ago. I definitely prefer Les Picasses at 30+ years, but '07 is lovely now, esp. w/ a big meal. Could drink it now w/ a decant, or could age it a while yet.
I’ve not had '08 but the vintage should be right up my alley. '09 might be a bit riper, was generally thought of as the “better” vintage, but, as with Bordeaux, I’ll probably prefer '08 overall in the Loire.
This seems rather expensive given that half bottles of the '04 came out around $15 or $18 a couple years ago. But at the same time, I don’t see much available on Wine-Searcher other than the '08, which can be had for $45.
Yes- my 1982, tasted 2 years ago, was almost confusingly young.
Zero chance I’d ever have called it blind as 40 year old chenin. A singular experience for white wine that old (at least for me).
I’ve always been a little suspicious that it was not in fact a 1982, but that’s veering into paranoia, and your experience with the '93 seems to confirm mine.
Has any one tried the Olga Raffault Chinon La Fraich 2023? At SaratogaWine $21
Description…100% Cabernet Franc. 2022 is the first vintage for the new entry-level Chinon from Raffault. The fruit comes from very young vines in sandy, flat parcels near the winery not far from the the Vienne River. The farming is certified-organic and the harvest is manual. The berries are destemmed but not crushed and fermented with native yeasts in tank with a maceration of about 15 days. The wine is aged in stainless steel tanks for about 6 months before bottling. This vin de soif has a pretty and playful label that complements its style perfectly.
For serious bang-for-the-buck, I’d probably generally go w/ Baudry Granges ('23 is killer there…), or Guion, both at a similar price point, but if I ended up with a couple bottles per year of Fraich, I wouldn’t complain.
Thanks----I was surprised to see an “entry” level release…it’s not like the regular Picasse is expensive! Thanks for the reply agree all Baudry wines are great—though I have not had the 23!
I also visited the domaine last year and tried the 2022 but if I remember what Sylvie said and to paraphrase; they were looking to fill that niche of fresh, ready to drink wines that are quaffable.
It’s not so much about price, it’s about when you might want to drink it. As noted higher up the page Les Picasses is for the cellar, but La Fraich is for drinking on release. La Fraich sees some carbonic maceration, a cool temperature fermentation to accentuate the fruit, and a short élevage in stainless steel before release, which you should expect in February or March after the year of harvest. A true ‘vin de pringtemps’!
I have only recently discovered the joys of Chinon and Olga Raffault is a big part of this new found love. Living in Jersey (not New Jersey) I can get to France easily and it doesnt take long to Chinon. I have been buying 2008/2009 and 2010 Les Picasses from the Domaine, so far been drinking the 2009 and for 24€ it is a bargain and delicious. I don’t know if it will improve but it is great as it us. The estare is offering La Singulaire 2015 and 2018 for less than Les P, and have bought a few, so hopefully I will live long enough to do it justice. Have bought a few D’Or, I suspect the 2020 nededs 10 years.
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