Enjoyed an 18 guiberteau arboises on monday night. Supple entry with quite a taut mid palate onwards. Tiny hint of bell pepper amongst attractive red and black fruits. Good showing.
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Between uninteresting and outright unpleasant. Diluted, with an unpleasant metallic note, leaving a dry mouthfeel. This estate is being pitched as Clos Rougeard 2.0 But this vote goes to Etienne Bodet (apparently an alumni).
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Anyone tried the ‘17 Raffault Picasses yet? What was the ‘17 vintage like in Chinon?
Interesting. I had the Closiers a few weeks ago, and thought it was quite nice, maybe a bit closed, but with a lot of potential for the future. Bought a couple to find out. Certain was not off-putting to me in any way.
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+1. I rated the 2020 out to 85 points. I just found it terribly uninteresting and oaky. Like you, I am perplexed at how highly it is apparently regarded by some. Different strokes, I guess.
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2021 Domaine des Closiers Saumur-Champigny Les Closiers - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Saumur-Champigny (1/28/2024)
Dark, nearly opaque garnet, really have to squeeze something out of the nose, not shouting obvious cab franc at me; on the palate there is brooding dark fruit, here I definitely get cab franc, though its subtle, with some hints of lightly green pyrazines, excellent acidity, some good fine structure supporting the wine. Very young at this point, I think this will be quite nice in a decade.
Next night: still not a lot coming out on the nose, hasn't changed much on the palate either, with nice, restrained darker fruit, good acidity that adds brightness, fine structure. Enjoyable now, but I think it will be better in 5-10 years. (90 points)
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I am happy for you that you’ve enjoyed your bottle. I wished I could say the same… Maybe it was a wrong day to open it and they deserve another chance. But meanwhile I have to source more Etienne Bodet.
What was the Bodet like? That’s a producer I’ve never heard of.
I don’t have any insider knowledge, only what’s available online: a young winemaker with best connections, first vintage, untypical terroir, barrels from Clos Rougeard… Biodynamic practices but nothing natty here. Elegant, restrained, possibly a bit too polished for the fans of Chinon who like it a bit dirty. Tannins well in check, just a trace of something green. Charming nose (Closiers had none!) Otherwise typical Cab Franc flavors, with red fruit dominating, with a good dose of lavender. Long, mineral finish. I am convinced.
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2020 Domaine des Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Franc de Pied - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Saumur-Champigny (2/13/2024)
– decanted 30 min. before initial taste –
– tasted non-blind over 2.5 hrs. –
NOSE: tangy, red/purple fruit mix, perhaps with plum leading the way; light stony mineral note; seems fairly open. I thought I caught a whiff of something mousey, and this was later confirmed when Ash, without me having said anything, stuck her nose into her glass and immediately said “this smells yeasty” (she’s not familiar with “mousiness,” exactly).
BODY: ruby-violet color of medium-shallow to medium depth; medium-light bodied.
TASTE: flashy, with medium acidity; little bit of medium-fine tannins; light leather jacket note, especially on the finish, which is fairly persistent despite its medium-light intensity; slightly smoky, with some light purple berries, too — not terribly dissimilar from Baudry’s “Guillot”, which goes for approximately half the price; definitely a touch mousey. I guess this is pleasant enough, if you can look past some mousiness. For me, this is flawed, and I would generously score it in the low to mid 80s. I imagine this would be excellent without the mouse. NR (flawed)
That sucks and sucks to hear. I haven’t had a mousey one yet. Anybody have had some with similar faults? I’m wondering if this is something to be concerned about when buying.
Me neither, although I haven’t had that many, nor any bottles in a few years.
However, I find it odd if one is smelling mousiness in a wine. It’s not impossible - many people mistakenly believe mousiness can be only detected retronasally in the aftertaste - but from my experience a wine needs to be horribly and undrinkably mousy if you can already smell it. Even noticeably mousy wines typically smell perfectly fine - some even quite nice - and the mousiness attacks only in the aftertaste.
If you can smell mousiness, there must be so much THP in the wine that you can’t taste anything on the palate except the abhorrent, grainy flavors of THP. So it sounds like the wine is suffering from something else than mousiness. Or the wine is mousy, but there’s something else in the nose.
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I haven’t tried the Picasses 17 but I did try two Chinon 2017s this week, and sadly was not impressed.
Philippe Alliet - Coteau de Noiré was so awful it went straight into the sink. Unripe, vegetal and without any fruit. This was the second of twelve, both equally dire.
Charles Joguet - Les Varennes du Grand Clos was a bit better, but not by much. Savoury rather than fruity, with again some unpleasant vegetal notes. I managed to finish one glass.
These could have been off bottles, or just a weird stage in their development, because they do not correspond to critics’ reviews, nor to previous experiences I have had with other 2017s, but I would certainly tread carefully.
I’ve had lots of the FDP cuvée, and looking back through my notes I confirm that I have never had a mousey one so far. In fact, I’ve always been lucky with this and never had a disappointing bottle, but it does sound as if you just had a bad one.
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I never had a faulty Roches Neuves bottle. But thats from a limited amount.
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Same here
This is exactly why I was doubting my initial impression, but I eventually settled-in to that’s what it was – mousiness. If it wasn’t mousiness, it’s something that smells and tastes just like it; so, we can debate what it was, but at the end of the day that’s how it presents, and it was no bueno.
Seeing others’ replies on this, it appears I’m “the lucky one” to have gotten a bad bottle. Given that it was $60, I’m not particularly excited to give it another shot, but maybe I will with a future vintage — we’ll see.
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Had a lovely evening tonight with the very wonderful winemakers of C&P Breton. Breton is really in my sweet spot. The upper cuvees are every bit as good as Baudry in my book.
BRETON TASTING WITH FRANCE BRETON AND BAPTISTE DESRROUSEAUX - Flatiron Wines SF (3/6/2024)
Wonderful tasting hosted by Flatiron SF and Kermit Lynch, with winemakers France Breton and Baptiste Desrrouseaux (daughter of C&P Breton and her husband). I brought the 05 and 10 Perrieres and the 07 Clos Senechal.
- NV Catherine et Pierre Breton Vouvray La Dilettante - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray
Lovely Chenin bubbles. Slightly rustic mouse, but more refined on the palate with good sparkling Chenin typicity of honey and lanolin. Good cut and a great way to start an evening. (90 points) - NV Catherine et Pierre Breton Vouvray Pétillant Elle est pas bulle, la vie? - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Vouvray Pétillant
14g RS and 10.5% alcohol pet nat. Not giving much Chenin character - a little golden raisin if I look hard. Lightly sweet, a bit anonymous. Fine as a beach quaffer, but not really my cuppa. (86 points) - 2022 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Trinch! - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
A bit too fruity and one note for me. Again a bit anonymous. I thought for sure this was carbonic but apparently not. I've had really delicious Trinch!s from cooler years, which have a fun glou glou vibe while retaining some cab franc freshness; 2022 is not that. (86 points) - 2021 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil La Dilettante - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
Same source as the Trinch! but a vastly better wine in my book (possibly the '21 vintage is much more to my style than '22). Full stem inclusion and carbonic. The result is savory and textural, while retaining good fruit and, while certainly present, surprisingly modest herbaceous notes. Love it and a total QPR winner. (92 points) - 2019 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Clos Sénéchal - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
So lovely and fragrant, full of red berries and dried flowers. Definitely notice the change in winemaking here, with silky refined tannins, pure red fruits, less tomacco pyrazines, but a wonderful and shimmery sort of texture. Burgundian and not dissimilar in texture to the Chevillon Ronciers I had earlier in the week. Still savory and mineral, with plenty of hidden structure. Baptiste and France started at the winery in '18 and tool over completely in '21. Loved this, and look forward to seeing where this heads. 93+ (93 points) - 2007 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Clos Sénéchal - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
Burly, old school Loire, with good acid and a mix of red and black fruit. Less concentrated than the '05 Perrieres and more rustic, with quite grippy and chalky tannins. Just a smidge of brett and plenty of tomacco pyrazines. Lots of depth and soulfulness. The favorite for the old school Loire lovers. (92 points) - 2010 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Les Perrières - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
Slightly off bottle. A bit tired and mushroomy on the nose. Better on the palate. Some people said lightly corked, and I thought maybe some heat damage. At any rate, seemed slightly flat, although it did improve a bit with air. Good structure and texture, moderate tannins. - 2005 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Les Perrières - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
Lovely as before. Didn't have a chance to fully open up, and is showing incredibly young. Several commented that this seemed like one of the youngest wines of the night. Certainly the color is of a freshly bottled wine, but I felt there was some tertiary development and complexity, while retaining young fruit vibes. Fruit, depth, mineral, tobacco. This is the complete package and will probably peak in another 10 years, and drink well for 30+. Baptiste said Pierre opened 3 bottles of the '47 for their wedding, and this was similar in profile. (93 points) - 2020 Catherine et Pierre Breton Bourgueil Nuits d'Ivresse - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil
One of the more structured and austere wines of the night. Savory, darker fruited, and leans more towards the profile of old school Loire, although with more refined tannins. Baptiste says this come from 3 plots, mostly dense clay and limestone. Backwards and needs time, but has the balance and stuffing to be excellent in 5+ years. 90+ (90 points)
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Thanks for the report! Was thinking of going to this, but getting into the city on a weeknight is just too painful lol.
A little birdy told me you’d be there, but I don’t blame you for not making the trek!