In addition to the absence of an official cru system, one of the ways the central Loire differs from Burgundy is that most of best sites are, functionally, monopoles. How many different producers offer a bottling of Les Preuses? AFAIK, there’s nothing remotely like that anywhere in the Loire (maybe one or two Sancerre sites come closest?).
One consequence of this is to deprive Loire fans of the chance to nerd out the way Burgundy fans do, by trying to partial out site/vineyard characteristics from producer and vintage ones.
Anyway, this got me wondering how many high-quality sites are worked by multiple producers. I could only come up with a couple.* Hopefully others can add to or correct my meager list.
Les Picasses (Chinon)
Olga Raffault
J. M. Raffault
Coulaine—the eponymous cuvee plus the hard-to-find La Diablesse
Breton—do they still make this? Where can I get some?
Laurent Lebled—no idea who this is; Google found it for me
Les Perrieres (Bourgueil)
Breton
Domaine de la Butte
Les Poyeux (Saumur-Champigny)
Rougeard
Antoine Sanzay
Domaine des Sanzay—again, no idea about this one; Google found it
That’s all I’ve got.
*I know nothing at all about Loire Valley geography, and am essentially dependent on labels. I also realize that vineyard boundary lines can be affected by commercial pressure, political pressure, dynastic squabbles, etc. Anyone with a more concrete understanding of particular sites is especially welcome to chime in.
You’re quite right, Elliot, it hadn’t occurred to me - but then I’m not a Burgundy fan! I had too many disappointments with Burgundies to ever get hooked, but that’s my funeral.
I can only think of a couple of examples for your list:
Clos Sénéchal, Bourgueil - Breton, of course but also Maison Audebert - but the latter is of no interest, I tried one!
La Croix Boissée, Chinon - Baudry, obviously, but also Béatrice et Pascal Lambert, Domaine Gouron, and Domaine de l’R (F.Sigonneau), all of which are supposed to be good. I think there are more producers actually.
I’ve never heard of Domaine des Sanzay - I imagine they are cousins of Antoine or something like that.
BTW for Troy - I think Robert’s idea of Rcohes-Neuves is spot on. I’m trying one tonight so I’ll report back on any brett.
Thanks very much for this Julian. I didn’t know about any of the other producers making wine from la Croix Boissee. I’ve had one or two Lambert wines before (quite good, if i recall), and I think I’ve seen some l’R wines around, but it doesn’t appear that any of the Croix Boissee bottlings make it to the US–which is too bad; it’d be fun to put together a horizontal tasting. If you manage to try any, please post a note.
I have my first Antoine Sanzay cued up for tonight or tomorrow.
Just opened a 2013 Marginale, which is my 3rd bottle of Roches Neuves ever & in the last month. I’ve never had Rougeard, but these wines are the best examples of Loire Cab Franc I’ve ever had. These really feel closer to Burgundy in spirit than to Right Bank Bordeaux. I’m voting for Roches Neuves as at least 1st among equals in the 2nd tier.
My thoughts exactly! I’m backfilling everything I can find from 2014-2018. BTW, it was your endorsement that turned me on to this producer (in addition to Baudry, Gonon and others), so thanks for everything, and feel free to invoice Jayson Cohen for your time.
So I tried the baudry croix boissee 2015 today. No overt bret, sufficiently ripe for my palate. Beautiful nose with a touch of bell pepper, on the palate a bit more angular, rustic than the roches neuves from 15 and 16 I have tried. I’d consider this closer to Rougeard in style than roches neuves. Good wine, and happy I bought this blindly.
Thank you to all the posters for this incredibly useful and informative thread. I only now realized that this section of my cellar is woefully under represented. Not having a lot of experience with most of these producers, based on this thread, I picked up a mixed case of Baudry, Breton, and Olga Raffault. I plan to enjoy a couple young to see what their fruit is like and cellar to enjoy in the future. Meanwhile, in the spirit of this thread, I am going to open my orphan of 1996 Charles Joguet Chinon Clos de la Dioterie and will report back. Thanks again and enjoy your weekends!
This has been a fantastic thread, and completely devoid of the vitriol that eventually creeps into many Berserker discussions. Look forward to the report on the 96 Joguet!
I think the ripeness of 2015 and 2016 has been a boon to Loire reds finding a wider audience. And in fact I’ve also found that the lower-entry village wines from those two vintages have been knockouts, in much the same way that 2015 in Burgundy led to normally marginal sites making exceptional and compelling wines. When it comes to stocking up on recent vintages from the Loire, from my vantage point there is an incredible wealth of producers worth considering:
Richou
Villeneuve
Baumard
Alliet
Fillieatreau
Chateau Yvonne
Jacky Blot
…and plenty more, alongside the usual favorites. And some of the co-ops, like Les Vignerons de Saumur, made wines that are crazy good for their prices!
I still prefer, as in Bordeaux, the more classic vintages, but these riper vintages are great for the lower tier wines. The Baudry base cuvee 2016 was insanely good, I bought and have literally already gone through two cases. That said, I think Baudry’s flagship wines are better in 2014. I have some 2014 Rougeard staring me in the face right now. May have to be a quarantine pull this weekend.
