A Case of Mistaken Identity: California Chardonnay – Chablis

[b_castner]

@Dave McIsaac

@b. c@stner

Thanks for the discussion Mike. I opened the 2011 Porter-Bass a few weeks ago. It was the first Ceritas wine I ever had and I was less than impressed, as were a few others. I admit to enjoying wines across the flavor spectrum but had myself wondering where this will go. I have one more of these and one '11 Peter Martin Ray chardonnay. Time will tell for me I guess.

I think you will enjoy the PMR better than the PB - at least I, and some others did.

Will give it a shot soon. Finally white wine weather here.

[Ross_Massey]

@Dave McIsaac

@b. c@stner

Thanks for the discussion Mike. I opened the 2011 Porter-Bass a few weeks ago. It was the first Ceritas wine I ever had and I was less than impressed, as were a few others. I admit to enjoying wines across the flavor spectrum but had myself wondering where this will go. I have one more of these and one '11 Peter Martin Ray chardonnay. Time will tell for me I guess.

I think you will enjoy the PMR better than the PB - at least I, and some others did.

The PMR is incredible, especially in 2012.

[M_Dildine]

@Ross Massey

The PMR is incredible, especially in 2012.

I have not tasted the Peter Martin Ray yet, but have found that the Charles Heintz (Sonoma Coast) is slightly better behaved than the Porter-Bass at this point, while maintaining the energetic mineral character.

The vineyard I’m most interested in tasting is Pinnacle (Santa Cruz Mts.). This is a dry-farmed, head-trained vineyard planted in the 1970s at an elevation of 1,600 feet.

[Sean_Moore]

@M. Dildine

@Ross Massey

The vineyard I’m most interested in tasting is Pinnacle (Santa Cruz Mts.). This is a dry-farmed, head-trained vineyard planted in the 1970s at an elevation of 1,600 feet.

I just cracked my first Pinnacle Vineyard last Friday evening and we drank it side-by-side with a 2012 Aubert Ritchie Vineyard. The Ceritas was relatively stunning, especially as the bottles warmed.

[Mike_Grammer]

Thanks Jane—sadly the 10s are long gone here I think. A couple of the 11s from a tasting in December:

"2011 Christian Moreau Chablis Valmur

One of my favourite houses. Interesting this time—hint of flowers and perfume overlay the regular stones and sea. Good zip on the tongue, fresh and clean with lemon and orange notes

2011 Christian Moreau Chablis Les Clos

Sterner stuff here, more mix of lemon and apple. A little softer on palate than the nose, but retains good rigour and true flavours of sour apple, limestone, crushed seashell and even a tinge of almond. Good!"

Skal,

Mike

[Jay_Miller]

C. Moreau seems very vintage dependent. I don’t care for them so much in riper vintages (e.g. 2009) but love them in leaner ones.

[M_Meer]

I think your tasting note for Valmur hit it on the head. True to form, Valmur or Vallée Mûre means “ripe valley.” Have not had the Moreau, but perhaps the winemaking accentuated the forwardness of the raw material.

[Ian_Dorin]

@M. Dildine

I’m guessing that if tasted blind, many, if not most tasters would incorrectly identify the region of origin of these two wines.

Nah, that’s just those naive California wine drinkers that think folks in Cali can make Burgundy

Seriously though, good notes, and an extremely fair comparison. I had the Ceritas 11s at West of West last year, and you are spot on, dead on ringer for a Chablis.

[larry_schaffer]

So is the general consensus that Chablis producers in general are producing a ‘different style’ of wine now than a decade ago? And if so, do you think it’s due to winemaking / winemaker changes, due to vintage variations, due to trying to make their wines more accessible earlier, due to trying to ‘appease’ new markets, or something else?

Just curious to see if folks think Chablis is going the route of CdP…

Cheers!

[Chris_Seiber]

@larry schaffer

So is the general consensus that Chablis producers in general are producing a ‘different style’ of wine now than a decade ago? And if so, do you think it’s due to winemaking / winemaker changes, due to vintage variations, due to trying to make their wines more accessible earlier, due to trying to ‘appease’ new markets, or something else?

Just curious to see if folks think Chablis is going the route of CdP…

Cheers!

Poll: For those who drank white burgundy 20+ years ago...

By almost a 3 to 1 margin in this (small and unscientific) poll, WBers seem to think the style is getting riper for White Burgs generally.

Nobody has ever really pinpointed the reason or found any evidence, though. My personal guess is that many producers have chosen to use different and new methods to produce a wine that has broader appeal and is more pleasurable upon release.

I don’t know that CdP is a good parallel though. White Burg seems to be going from very lean to more moderate, rather than from big to huge. And there is no real Robert Parker effect on Burgs.

A better parallel might be the trend in higher end California chardonnay towards a less opulent style?

[Ian_Dorin]

@larry schaffer

So is the general consensus that Chablis producers in general are producing a ‘different style’ of wine now than a decade ago? And if so, do you think it’s due to winemaking / winemaker changes, due to vintage variations, due to trying to make their wines more accessible earlier, due to trying to ‘appease’ new markets, or something else?

Just curious to see if folks think Chablis is going the route of CdP…

Cheers!

Not sure it’s appeasing, but maybe emulating? Raveneau makes some very, bold flashy wines and has gotten even more popular (how was that even possible???) in the last couple of years (especially at auction), so maybe folks are trying to do a copy cat?

I recall tasting Thomas Pico’s wines for the first time, and thought “holy crap, this tastes a lot like Raveneau”. He’s only be making wine for a short time too.

[M_Dildine]

Maybe a dumb question, but is it possible that the exploding Asian consumer market is a factor, particularly in Burgundy (a favorite of the Asian market)? Is the target taste profile for some producers changing as a result?

[b_castner]

@Dave McIsaac

@b. c@stner

Thanks for the discussion Mike. I opened the 2011 Porter-Bass a few weeks ago. It was the first Ceritas wine I ever had and I was less than impressed, as were a few others. I admit to enjoying wines across the flavor spectrum but had myself wondering where this will go. I have one more of these and one '11 Peter Martin Ray chardonnay. Time will tell for me I guess.

I think you will enjoy the PMR better than the PB - at least I, and some others did.

Finally got around to the 2011 Peter Martin Ray. Much more enjoyable than the PB. For me and my wife anyway. Although showing its oak right now, some nice citrus and fruit notes to go along with the mineral. Tightened up after about 90 minutes. Would be fun to see where this goes but this was my first/last/only bottle.

[scott_c]

Fascinating thread - thanks for starting. Coincidentally, I did almost the exact same thing, except over two nights, with a Ceritas pinot and a red Burg and had the opposite results, despite really wanting to have a similar conclusion!

[Michae1_P0wers]

I haven’t had a ton of 2011 Chablis, but what I have had all seem a bit round and unfocused. I am passing on the 2011’s I see (despite some attractive pricing) in favor of 10/12. In any comparison like this vintage should be a consideration, though considering the underlying general assumption that the CA Chard will be fatter, maybe a fatter vintage burg is an acceptable comparison.

[jflegler]

great thread, Mike…and I agree completely…I love Chablis but generally the ones with balanced fruit and acidity…Louis Michel and Malandes generally fit that for me…OTOH, I had an 07 Fevre Clos this week that had too much acidity for my tastes…I know it’s still young, but no extended aging for me in the age of premox

when tasting Ceritas 12s with Phoebe last month, I adored the Sonoma Coast chards but found the SCM chards to be a tad too acidic…all of the wines could have been mistaken for Chablis IMO

[Blake_Brown]

Good post, well written and informative- thanks Mike.