Was curious on people’s thoughts on buying 2nd wines instead of the main event if you are trying to ‘drink something tonight.’
For Example if i am looking at a
Lynch Bages 2018 vs Echo de Lynch Bages 2018
Le Petit Ducru 2019 vs Ducru Beaucaillou 2019
etc…
Is the premium of the main chateaux still worth it or because I’m drinking these after 5-6 years the 2nd label is either going to be worth the cost savings or even potentially better (right time to drink).
Thanks.
Lots of variables there, really depends on which Chateau and what the cepages is on the second wine. For example, Le Dame de Montrose is not an early drinker at all. La Grevatte from VCC can be, lots of Merlot. Le C from Les Carmes Haut Brion is also early maturing. Not totally sure about the two you highlight, but given the power of the main wines, they might not be. Which segues to my ultimate point, I never buy a second wine thinking it is going to be a baby of the main wine. They often are not and not as representative as you might think. I only buy a second label if it stands alone with its own merit. I buy very few second wines. And many really are not good QPRs.
Edit: Just checked on the Le Petit. It’s 60% Merlot. Go figure! Give it a whirl. And it is generally an accessible vintage.
Le Petit is a 3rd wine (La Croix is their 2nd wine) and looks to be a relatively new offering at a lower price point made for early drinking.
This newcomer is a selection derived from our St-Julien vineyards. Le Petit Ducru is a wine of balance and harmony, an elixir of youth. It is there, alive, and well, a rendezvous with pleasure. From its complexity to its structure, by way of its balance and its elegance. There is, of course, a family resemblance, a wonderful complicity between all of the estate wines at Ducru-Beaucaillou. A Cabernet-Merlot blend and depending on the vintage, sometimes with a hint of Petit Verdot, varietal that we know to be a skillful sculptor. Accessible from its earliest youth, it will make for a happy dining companion in restaurants. It will make for a perfect marriage with poultry where it will bow down before its crispy, brown skin and envelop the steaming flesh with its tannins.
I’ve been happy with the Pavillon de Leoville Poyferre as a middle term drinker but life feels like it has the profile to drink earlier.
Makes sense. So maybe a better question… Are there bordeauxs (maybe not grcu) you would recommend for early drinking (5-7) years where you are not leaving too much on the table?
Flavor profile preferably closer to st. Julien (medium to full body).
Wouldn’t you just prefer less expensive firsts Malescot, Couhins Lurton, Louviere, Fonbadet, Pibran, or wines like Lanessan, Bolaire, Carignan, Cambon la Pelouse, or others for early drinking?
Better/equal wines in many cases without the Lynch Bages price premium on Echo to drink younger.
Of ones not mentioned for non-firsts La Croix de Beaucaillou is a very good wine that can age too.
I’d skip the '18 Echo altogether, it’s not that great and pretty overpriced for what’s in the bottle. '19 Comtesse Reserve is 46% merlot and really lovely if you can find it at a decent price. Dame de Montrose is probably the best 2nd wine I’ve tried, crazy QPR but definitely not for early drinking. Most 2nd wines are kind of a crapshoot in my experience and often not worth the price.
If it’s value you’re after, Crus Bourgeois (or their equivalent) are a much better bet. If you want a St.Julien, Du Glana is a good one to try. If not, Larose-Trintaudon, which is slightly lighter but has a similar St.Julien taste as it’s very close to St.J.
Second or third wines are a bit of a minefield. Wines like Les Griffons by Pichon Baron, or Pichon Réserve (by Comtesse) are very good, but they’re priced like lower ranking CCs and age accordingly, so they’re not really for early drinking. Le Petit Ducru is what used to be called Lalande-Borie - it’s OK but nothing special. Likewise La Réserve de Léoville Barton. The Poyferré one is fine - but they’re all quite expensive for what you get.
Yeah I haven’t had the 3d wine, but La Croix de Beaucaillou is a really nice wine. It can be rather forward and certainly earlier-drinking than the big brother.
Most second wines are perfect for drinking on release. That’s their purpose. That being said, using the Margaux appellation as an example sample, I’d rather buy Siran over any second wines.
You also asked about other, early drinking Bordeaux. Today, almost every Bordeaux is vinified for early drinkability. That doesn’t mean they’re mature, but they are often charming when young. Of course that varies depending on the chateau and the vintage.
For a lot of pleasure on release, or with minimal aging, look for wines from the Cotes de Bordeaux, and Lalande de Pomerol as well as Cru Bourgeois.
15 years ago when Alter Ego as available for £25 and Dame the Montrose was £20 or so I would drink them happily. With the premiums these days they are not even close to being worth thinking about.
I would rather drink the first wine of a thousand or more reasonable producers before paying the unreasonable premium on second wines.
Agree with what others have said so far. That said, a second wine that I have enjoyed many times in the past and which hasn’t been mentioned yet, is Calon Segurs second wine. It used to be called Marquis de Calon (the 09 & 10 were surprisingly serious wines) but it is now called Le Marquis de Calon Segur. Again, don’t expect it to be much like its bigger brother (it has much more Merlot I believe) but it’s a nice wine. Unfortunately, its price also seems to be slowly rising…
For an inexpensive Bordeaux to “drink tonight,” try a Chateau Mauvesin Barton. Separate estate from Leoville Barton and Langoa Barton (this one is from Moulis) but has the wine making, etc., experience from the people from those estates. So, it is not a second wine, but may fit what you are looking for.
thanks all for the recs. Very interesting to hear that the 2nd wines seem to be completely not worth it. I always thought they were supposed to be young drinking versions of the main event but looking at the prices of let’s say le clarence de haut brion… or pavillion rouge… i start to question is that really worth it? I saw a few good deals on le petit lion leoville les cases as well as La Croix Ducru Beaucaillou for ~$50. Will try to explore some of the cru bourgeois.
My favorite wine, to which i buy a good amount every year is haut brion… but obviously that is not practical to drink even on a weekly basis. I have never found anything in graves/PL at a price point that is reasonable that seems to be worth it (LMHB is still wayy to expensive). Hence i was thinking of going for the Le Clarence HB but it seems like even that is not worth the price. My other favorite is St. Julien to which there are many options at a more reasonable price point.
Couhins-Lurton was a pretty decent PL but still felt it needed more time than 5-7 years.
I haven’t had a ton of second wines, but I really liked the 2018 Petit Lion (LLC), and the 2017 Gravette de Certan was outrageously tasty. Recently tried the 2019 though, and it was much more closed. Probably the vintage more than anything though.
If you like the style, La Réserve de Malartic (Lagravière) is very similar to their top wine at a fraction of the price, costing around the same as a Cru Bourgeois, but once again, for one or two euros more, La Louvière is better - but the former drinks well earlier than the latter.
Haut Brion is a pretty singular wine. Branaire Ducru has been on a great run and is priced to be a more wallet-palatable option from StJ.
For me, yes, and it’s called the right bank - an ocean of wine with upfront drinking pleasure while my left bank stalwarts sleep in the cellar. For early drinking left bank wines in general I’d much rather have a very good Haut Medoc even if it sandpapers my mouth with tannins than a mediocre second wine.
