I don´t think 20% down is enough …
Myself tasted zero so far - but a friend (journalist) was in Bx 2 weeks ago - and he said:
very very mixed quality, few great wines (but there are some), and a lot of mean or even weak wines …
I don´t think the prices will raise that much after bottling …
Palmer has just been released at 20% below the 2016. I have no doubt that the negotiators will take their allocation but whether the consumers will pay is another question especially as the weakness in the pound and dollar have taken a chunk out of the savings.
Maybe my choice of word is poor but there is a huge manipulation. I hope you are aware of it no?
There are several ways everybody gets fooled:
La Revue des Vins de France did a lot of articles on that … It is widely known that what you have at the primeur is not really what you get in bottle. Michel Rolland is very open about it that he will help chateaux take care about the best 20 tanks they have and make them ready for primeur tasting.
So giving your money for 2 years to purchase a product that has been tasted using pimped up samples ? I admire the chateaux that make you feel that inventory is limited and that you really have to purchase now.
Yawn. These wines will be available in 2 years. Oceans of Bordeaux at similar prices
My experience is that you should buy EP when the vintage is really strong or the prices are really good (see 2014). For other vintages, wait.
Also, only buy from reputable vendors.
The wines in the Left Bank and Pessac Leognan are blended in January, following the harvest. Perhaps, they might include more press wine before bottling, but the blend is finalized. This is only true in the Right Bank, where the final blend has not been produced.
- Some wines that use a lot of extraction are not good to be tasted by April; they would be too strong and not very drinkable.
Where do you get this idea, or info? It is 100% wrong. Can you name specific wines that you are referring to?
- They obviously make sure to make primeur assemblage using the best wine from best parcelles; clearly this is misleading for the consumer because he will not get that in the final product.
No, this is not true. Today, as more wine is relegated to second wines, you usually see the same parcels used for the Grand Vin. This is for numerous reasons, better terroir, older vines, etc. At some estates, this is fixed, at others, it can vary slightly, to be more or less inclusive, depending on the vintage.
- They also treat the samples to be tasted in a special way by (“cliquetage”) to expose wine with a lot of oxygen. That opens up the wines.
Who specifically is the “They” you keep referring to? Do you have specific chateau, wineries, estates in mind?
FWIW, very few wineries practice that today. It is difficult to do and also to have a lower level of SO2, for tastings.
- Moreover, the split between first and second wine is not decided at primeur time frame.
Partially true. The percentage of the Grand Vin and second wine is not always fully determined yet. But that is not relevant. The goal today is not increased production of the Grand Vin. Today, all top estates make less Grand Vin than ever. You are seeing an increase in the second and third wines. It is better to charge more for a better product, not dilute it.
If they see that there is high demand of the wine, miraculously, the production of 1st wine is increases and production of second wine is down.
This is silly. Who is they you keep referring to?
even worse: it is allowed to add up to 15% of the wine from the year before in the assemblage. That help also pumping up the production of a high demand vintage
Yes, that is 100% true. I imagine that in vintages like 2013, they added 2012. It is the same rule in California. In California you can also label a wine as a single grape variety and never know that your wine can have up to 25% of other varieties in the blend. You can also blend in up to 15% of the wine from grapes that were planted in a different appellation, and never know. And so what? Either you like the wine or not.
Michel Rolland is very open about it that he will help chateaux take care about the best 20 tanks they have and make them ready for primeur tasting.
Of course they look for the best barrels. Who wouldn’t? But I am also positive that 99% of the estates do not alter their wine. Having tasted every year in Bordeaux starting in 2005, and published close to 5,000 barrel tasting notes, I can only think of 1 instance where this was done purposely.
I admire the chateaux that make you feel that inventory is limited and that you really have to purchase now.
You know more about Bordeaux than any other wine. You know how much was produced. You know the price they charge, and how much of a markup was taken. What we do not know is how much of the production was offered for sale.
As an example, please tell me how many bottles of DRC, Leroy, Gaja, Krug, Screaming Eagle etc were produced, how many of those bottles were released, and what was the price the winery charged their distributor etc… ?
There are 3 main reasons to buy futures, IMO.
You think prices will be more expensive on release.
You want specific format sizes.
The wines are small production Pomerol, St. Emilion etc and the wines will be harder to find on release, and thus more expensive.
Not certain how or even if the 20% discount in euros (noted for Palmer) will translate to discount in dollars - given changes in currency rates we may see no discount in the U.S. market! 
Buying the 2015s and 2016s currently in the market looks like a better play. But however you slice it, the 2017s are looking like a difficult sell if prices don’t come down. ![[stirthepothal.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f40faec63ca1018898a40805efbf9f0066a3d205.gif "[stirthepothal.gif]"){kind=small}
Chateau Valandraud is also out at £1200, which is said to be close to 25% down on the 2016. 
You are really that naive uh?
They have been number of articles over the years (including the one I reference the most: Revue des Vins de France in 2010: “ce que cachent les echantillons” ) on that particular topic. Everything has been done to make samples better for primeurs.
They are many changes between the primeur scores and bottle scores.
In top of that, don’t you think that the wine testers are not influenced by the label on the bottle, you are naive. Blind tasting should be the norm.
So:
Also you mention that we know everything about the wine: we do, but at release, not at the primeur stage.
One of us has experience tasting about 5,000 barrel samples in Bordeaux, and one has not. One of us knows how things work from personal experience, and one of us doesn’t.
They are many changes between the primeur scores and bottle scores.
Yes they do. Wines improve, stay as expected, or get worse. That is why they have ranges.
In top of that, don’t you think that the wine testers are not influenced by the label on the bottle, you are naive. Blind tasting should be the norm.
For barrel samples it is a bad idea. For bottled wines, it is fine.
Also you mention that we know everything about the wine: we do, but at release, not at the primeur stage.
No, that is not correct. Where do you get these ideas? All the info you need is easily findable. There are stacks of Twitter feeds giving you all the info we have discussed right now.
Hello Jeff,
Would you care to explain why blind tasting is bad for barrel samples?
Thank you.
Carter
Nice post Jeff! In my opinion there is a 4th reason to buy en primeur: provenance. Especially for top-tier stuff…
The UGC which organizes the large group tastings offers the choice of tasting blind or not. That accounts for around half the wines. The rest you go round the various chateaux and taste on site. It never made much sense tasting some wines blind and some not.
Carter, there are numerous reasons, but these are the first that come to mind.
Barrel samples should be tasted in context.
You are never going to have a level playing field. For example let’s say you want to taste Pauillac. It is impossible to have all the wines from the appellation available to compare, as several estates do not provide samples for tasting outside their chateau.
You should be aware of at least the blend, when the wine finished malo, (If it was late or early), barrel aging program, was all the press wine added, is the wine a finished sample or not.
How well do the wines from the property age? How much oak do they use? Does the wine integrate the oak, or do they remain oaky?
Do the wines age? If a wine shows well young, does it have a habit of falling apart in its youth, some do, or do they age for years or decades?
Some wines are always great in barrel, but they don’t develop the nuances as expected by the time the wine is bottled, or a few years later they lose their charm.
There are also wines that can be tannic, or from very stony, mineral soils that are difficult to taste in barrel, but they are always better in bottle.
I cannot name any chateau that finds barrel tasting done blind reliable. I also could not name any estate that does not believe in blind tastings after the wines are bottled.
Jeff mounted a very spirited defense of the en primeur system against charges that I have been hearing about for years. The net is how well do the wines correspond to your initial tasting and I, and most of the people who taste the wines find a very strong correlation between what we taste in barrel and what ends up in the bottle. I would say most years I am surprised by half a dozen wines and it’s just as likely I have underscored a wine.
Yes there are perhaps games being played but this is a system that is based on trust, and is done year in and year out. The trade comes to taste and based on that and the critic’s scores spends tens of millions of dollars; you don’t do it for long if the system is rigged.
I got my first offer of 2017 Palmer: $268/bottle.
And my second about a minute later at $275/bottle.
That is the type of comment I hope I would not read. Many of your fellow wine tasters are very critic of the process. No need to play the authority card here.
Reading you, you contradict yourself a little bit:
At the end, En primeur is an OK proxy of the final quality of the wine in general and it is a great marketing machine. It has turned into a marketing only machine for the high price bordeaux as they do not play the primeur game fair.
Vincent, I can’t help but think that your comment to Jeff: “You are really that naive uh?”, might have had something to do with him pointing out his professional tasting experience, which extends back a ways. Treat with a little respect if you want to be so treated. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
^^^
I wasnt going to be so polite