2017 Bordeaux En Primeur

WINE TALK
21

The first little trickle, before the dam bursts.

How are vineyards hit “vicariously” by frost? Are the frosts imaginary?

22

Even if you have an anniversary etc and must buy there is no reason to do so now. Very unlikely to be cheaper now then when it is bottled.

23

After buying a fair amount of 2014 thru 2016, 2017 makes it easier for me to call it quits on futures going forward.

24

With so much available from 2014-2016, I too plan to stay out of the 2017 campaign.

25

I’ll be passing entirely on En Primeur due to many reasons above and the fact that I bought in to 20105 & 2016 futures. May skip the vintage entirely overall as well as there is enough Bordeaux in cellar now. I can wait for the next big opportunity.

26

Just got an e mail from Livex. Suckling scores 18 wines 97-98 or better. I am surprised.

27

I’ve promised myself I wouldn’t buy futures each and every year, and each and every year I end up swearing that this is my last year that I’m buying.

I’m not buying this year, and I’m sticking to it.

Swear.

Really. I’m not kidding.

28

Vintage of the century? [stirthepothal.gif]

29

Low scores on a 5 point scale of 96-100.

30

Suckling scores always excessive. A 90 point wine is below average in his universe.

31

This sounds familiar. Like struggling smokers, we are really good at quitting, having done it many times.

Well, it’s gonna stick this time. I’m too old, have too much Bordeaux, and there’s no room in the cellar.

32

Well, I think I will take a contrarian view. I think I did that also last year. I ask, why not buy? As of now, we do not have a lot of good data. Sure, we know about the weather, and the general perception of a 2014 maybe 14+ kind of quality vintage. We do not have any reliable tasting notes that I know of and we do not have pricing. There have been assumptions about pricing, which may be more or less correct. If the idea is to buy based on financial considerations, the do not buy conclusion is the correct one…as it has largely been since 2010. On the other hand, I hold out a lot of hope that there will be quality wines at good value price points. Maybe it can be argued that 2014-2016 offers better values, but that is not the whole picture. 2017 will be a different vintage, and hence, the wines will be diffferent, not the same as 14,etc. Bordeaux will remain a relative value vs other cabernet, merlot producing areas. Maybe there are verticals to maintain. As for me, I am waiting to see the reviews and pricing, and even though I am older than a bordeaux buyer should be, I think tracking ‘em down is a lot of fun, as is drinking the wines, and if the outlook is for an earlier maturing vintage and I can find some relative value, I will probably go in for a little. Maybe a mixed case, we will see. Will I save money vs waiting until release? Maybe not, but I can lock in what I want. Like I said, a contrarian view.

33

Well, I generally hate the word “off-vintage” … but if anything is “off” between 1997 and 2017 → it´s 2013
[shock.gif]

34

Hamish, please let us know your thoughts on the 2017s you taste in Bordeaux when you get a chance! All other Bordeaux 2017 tasting notes also welcome!! [cheers.gif] Please lower prices for the 2017s… pileon

35

[winner.gif]

36

Anyone back from the en primeur tastings in Bordeaux with thoughts on the 2017s? [stirthepothal.gif]

37

My response comes from actually tasting 500 wines from 2017, not from what I have read. First, few vintages are great, we got lucky in 206, 2015, 2010 and 2009. But great years are generally not common.

There are some wines is that some wines are truly very good. It depends on the vineyard, the producer and the style of wine you like.

Primeur period is a farce anyway: doctored samples,

Where do you get this info? What chateau doctor samples?

many chateaux don’t want to be part of blind tasting.

Most do not care. Perhaps 20 estates only allow their samples to be tasted at the estate. This is true. And so what? Very few real writers or critics taste barrel samples blind for numerous reasons. It is a silly way to evaluate barrel samples. Wines in bottle can be tasted blind however.

+ High Euro

I’m not sure the Euro is going to weaken from here. But I would not base my buying decisions on that one way or the other. But that’s just me.

It is urgent to wait and if you cannot wait to buy Bordeaux, there is plenty of stock

There is stock, but most of the strong vintages like 09/10. 15 & 16 have moved in price. More important it the style of the wines. Some people will prefer 2017, others not. That strategy for many of the better wines in 2015/2016 did not prove successful, partially for currency reasons. If only I had tomorrow’s news paper today, just once!

38

Jeff, thanks for your impressions of the 2017s. Do you think that the 2017s will be early maturing, kind of like the 2012s, some of which are showing pretty well right now? I guess pricing on the 2017s will be key to U.S. demand. I read that there were many Asian buyers in attendance last week in Bordeaux - is demand still as strong in Asia as it has been for Bordeaux futures? pileon

39

A lot of 17 you can drink early. No idea on prices. It will be a combination of currency, demand and wishes.

Not sure how much wines is sold as futures to Asia. I imagine it is small, but in bottle the market thrives.

17 will please tasters that prefer brighter, fresher, red fruited wines with soft tannins and sweet fruit. The wines in most cases lack density, but they have charm. It is a good vintage where a few producers made great wine.

40

Looks like Ch Palmer along with 2nd wine Alter Ego is first off the stands. Prices are down 20% from 2016 but interestingly: “buyers looking for value may consider the 2012 vintage. The wine received a score of 96 points from Robert Parker and is available at a 20% discount to today’s release”

Whats your experience with EP? This is going to be my first so I’m looking forward to it.