2016 Mugneret Gibourg village wine > $200!

[David_Bu3ker]

Michael Skurnik is the importer. Importers are pigs and this is a case in fact. Producers rarely ever see anything close to the wealth made by importers.

Do you know Michael? I do, and your statement is downright offensive

[Kirk.Grant]

Obviously each retailer needs to decide how to handle their business, and whether to mark up particularly sought after wines to what the market will bear vs. selling the wines at their standard mark up. Although I buy wines online from a number of retailers, it is mainly because there are many many Burgundies that never hit our marketplace…we are at the mercy of what distributors in WA state decide to bring in. I do not buy online to get lower prices, as I am extremely loyal to my local retailer who sells me and others I know the extremely sought after wines he does get at his normal mark up, and he offers us our favorite producers as we have bought them over the years, and bought them in lesser and greater vintages. He is allocated those wines because of the business he does with those distributors over the years across their portfolios. Because our Burgundy distribution here is so limited, there are not cases upon cases of village wine or Bourgogne from sought after producers even available that have to be purchased for him to obtain those precious few bottles of Grand crus…he may get a mixed case of wines from Dujac or Rousseau, from village to GC, and that is that. He does not even conceal from us what his wholesale cost is, which of course continues to rise. If he started to charge what the market will bear on those wines, I would not have any loyalty to him and to his shop, and I would simply look online for the lowest prices. But I understand that there is a huge difference between a local wine shop with loyal local customers and a shop with mainly internet customers from around the country.

This covers how I feel about things on such a large scale. I try to buy (when there’s room in the budget) from one retailer as often as I can. He’s not local, but it is a small family owned store. When I can’t find/get what I want there then I look elsewhere for the best price. He openly tells me when a wine is not competitive w/ national pricing and it feels nice having someone that really knows my palate that I trust when they say, “You really need to try this wine”.

[Jamie_Kutch]

Yes, I do David, very well. I was in their book and it’s a story for another day and another place.

[David_Bu3ker]

No doubt a story with two sides.

[J0hn_mith]

Michael Skurnik is the importer. Importers are pigs and this is a case in fact. Producers rarely ever see anything close to the wealth made by importers.

I get your point Jamie. Producers are the one who takes the risk, do the hard work and make the product. Its sad to see the “middlemen” screw both the producers and consumers.

I suppose you can say the same about distibutors and retailers? Spill the beans Jamie, we like to hear your thoughts.

[Mike_Grammer]

I checked the retail price for 09 Echezeaux (WineArt) in Germany. While I bought the wine for about 85 Euros at the winery the retailers price today ist 650. Everybody who supports those exaggerations is responsible for destroying a culture. Everyone should make a profit but this is something different and not reputable.

Is that the bottle you bought on our visit there together?

[Jonathan_H]

How much is everyone paying for other upper tier village wines? My costs have been up a solid 15-20% when comparing 2015 to 2016.

[Gerhard_P]

@Jürgen: WineArt was never known as “cheap” retailer … rarely bought from them …

How much is everyone paying for other upper tier village wines? My costs have been up a solid 15-20% when comparing 2015 to 2016.

I´d say 10-20% more for 2016 than 2015 at the domaines, which is justified due to the very low yields …
but markups at the retailers (importers, distributers?) are far higher …

(let´s see if prices for 2017 will drop, a far higher quantity and certainly not better quality … )

[Jamie_Kutch]

Spill the beans Jamie, we like to hear your thoughts.

I am going to take the sidelines on this one.

I am off to vacation today. Best to you all and Happy thanksgiving.

[JG_Salazar]

Wow.

[Matthew_King]

Spill the beans Jamie, we like to hear your thoughts.

I am going to take the sidelines on this one.

I am off to vacation today. Best to you all and Happy thanksgiving.

Dude, it seems a tad disingenuous to pull the pin on the grenade and then just walk away. But it’s your prerogative, of course.

[J0hn_mith]

Spill the beans Jamie, we like to hear your thoughts.

I am going to take the sidelines on this one.

I am off to vacation today. Best to you all and Happy thanksgiving.

Dude, it seems a tad disingenuous to pull the pin on the grenade and then just walk away. But it’s your prerogative, of course.

See Jamie, we all want to hear you. You have a big audience here. Please speak up, for the sake of truth!

Happy thanksgiving to you as well.

[Mark_Golodetz]

You cannot seriously expect someone in the business to detail problems which are obviously ended up being quite unpleasant on public forum just to satisfy our curiosity. It’s a small industry, and there is no need make enemies.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

There was a great Chinese restaurant in NYC, east 50s between Park and Madison, closed maybe 5 years ago. Maybe a decade ago it had the 1999 M-G ‘Ruchottes Chambertin’ on the list for $149 per bottle. Took about 6 months to finish up their stock, I had a lot of peking duck to go with the wine…

Tse Yang.

[Matthew_King]

You cannot seriously expect someone in the business to detail problems which are obviously ended up being quite unpleasant on public forum just to satisfy our curiosity. It’s a small industry, and there is no need make enemies.

Then why speak up at all then?

It seems unfair – at least to me – to call importers “pigs” and then just walk away. Better to stay silent and keep his feelings to himself IMO. And to be clear, I don’t know any importers so I don’t have any dog in this fight. I just like a free marketplace of ideas…

[David_Bu3ker]

Jamie’s the one who made it clear he was dragging Michael Skurnik through the mud.

Not sure what his issue is, but Michael and Harmon are both some of the good guys IMO.

[S_Wang]

Same thing with Jean Yves Bizot, VR Village is ~300.

[Jurgen_Steinke]

I know all these arguments well – free market – everyone can do with his money what he wants etc. But as good as a Mugneret Guibourg Vorne Romanée is – I would never pay 250 Euros for a bottle. And certainly not 650 for a bottle of the Echezeaux.

BTW: The negative effect of those absurd retail prices is that if the producer realizes that people are ready to pay those prices they will ask for the same money themself. The result will be that Burgundy is no longer affordable for normal wine lovers. Entire Burgundy will turn into some kind of a luxury resort. Big money will buy the Domains sooner or later. This has certainly nothing to do with the world I started to discover and love 35 years ago.

[James_Billy]

Plenty of reasonably priced Burgundy if you avoid famous labels. Stock up now.

[David_Bu3ker]

While that is true, some of us have developed “attachments” to wines we were formerly able to afford and drink without too much angst. Mugneret-Gibourg is one of those producers for me, and I suspect for others here as well. My first bottle of the Vosne Romanee, many years ago, cost me about $35. To have it now be hovering between $110 and $250 (depending on source) is a little bit heartbreaking. I know I can get Michelot N-S-G 1er crus for around $60, and that’s great, but it does not replace Mugneret-Gibourg.

They are not the first producer where this has happened, nor will they be the last.