- Togni, Heitz
Ed, are the “new” Mayacamas wines made in the same style as the ones from the 70s and 80s? I hope so, and not just because I have a few from recent years bought on that premise
Corison
I agree 100% with your first sentence, but much less so with your second. A wine that is vegetal or green will not mature into something I want to drink, though one that is tight and backward very well may. I would never associate green, vegetal or bell-peeper heavy wines with the ability to age; rather, I’d say those wines are not worth drinking at any age. And when it comes to CA cabs, I am 100% a traditionalist.
In addition to MacDonald, and other suggested wines I would say Rivers marie Lore single vineyard, Maybach and Mondavi To Kalon
Neal.Mollen wrote:
Ed, are the “new” Mayacamas wines made in the same style as the ones from the 70s and 80s? I hope so, and not just because I have a few from recent years bought on that premise
Neal, I had the 2013, 2014 and 2015 recently and I would say a similar style. They are probably a touch more modern than the older ones but still made in a restrained, more old-school style. The '14 was my favorite of that trio.
Ed
They’ll let him sign up right now and buy the 2015s? Or would he have to go find a time machine? Asking for a friend
It’s only like a 6 year waiting list. And they are selling the 2017s this year. But no, MacDonald is definitely a great suggestion.
With all due respect, neither Maybach or Rivers Marie (which I buy), Schrader (which I greatly enjoy) nor Macdonald (which I have not had), have any track record for aging as long as the OP is interested. Of the first 3, I’m not sure these wines are crafted with intent for a long age anyway.
Mondavi Reserve on the other hand… a 1970 and 1990 side by side were among the best Napa reds I tasted last year.
Even the Silver Oak wines from the 80s and Caymus SS from the early 90s have been great, but neither seems to be made in classic style at present. With that in mind I’m not sure about current release Montelena either… but the old ones have been great.
Anyone tasted a recent release Montelena estate?
Cant go wrong with Dunn HM…
Thanks Ed. Just checked and the bottles I have are from 2010. Not even sure how I ended up with them.
I just had a 92’ Mondavi Reserve a week ago and while the tannins have mellowed it still drank super young and huge. Good call on Mondavi Reserve
Okay, I have to make a little confession here: I can’t really much smell or taste wine.
Mostly I feel [in terms of grip, penetration, a sense of layering, and that weird crystalline/metallic/electrolytic/electromagnetic current you sometimes feel with a Riesling in your mouth], and see [in terms of the colors in my mind’s eye, which I understand to be called “synesthesia”] my way through a wine.
But I’ve read a ton of criticisms of young Togni wines over the years [from people who presumably can smell and taste], and what I wrote [from memory] were all of the descriptors I read [over the years] from people who were complaining about why they hated Togni - green, bell pepper, vegetal*, no fruit, tannins too powerful, etc etc etc.
BTW, there’s a “stencil” or “shiner” of a Mayacamas Mountains wine in our market right now [the “End of the Vine” Mt Veeder Cabernet]; at a tasting a few months ago, I had a chance to try it [after it had been in a decanter for a few hours], and it was the leanest, tightest, greenest, light-brownest Cabernet I’ve ever tasted. I got a rather large pour of it in my glass, and I kept telling myself that I oughtta toss the rest of it in the swill bucket, but it was just too dadgum yummy, and I ended up swallowing the whole thing.
Sadly, it’s a 2014 [rather than a 2015], because that wine shouldn’t have any problem making it 50 or 75 years.
*Remember, tobacco is a green vegetable, right up until it’s harvested & dried & cured. And my gut instinct is that something similar is happening when you age a great cabernet [in terms of those green tobacco notes evolving into cured tobacco notes].
Mondavi has been through so many different winemakers over the years - it’s kinda like Penfolds Grange in that respect - that you really have to know the winemaker and the vintage in order to have any hope of being able to anticipate what it is that you might end up tasting.
The 1978 drank like a chocolate milkshake.
Whereas the 1995 was almost like a rose Cab Franc [or even a Pineau d’Aunis] from the Loire.
While thinking about the 1995, I got to wonder what Tim Mondavi is up to these days, and apparently it’s called “Continuum”:
It doesn’t even contain a majority of Cabernet in most years, and it was only 46% Cabernet in 2015 [with 31% Cabernet Franc, 17% Petit Verdot, and 6% Merlot].
But there are some intriguing descriptors at Cellar Tracker:
“Some vegetable after decant on the front end…”
“…a hint of green pepper…”
Community Tasting Notes - 2015 Continuum Proprietary Red - CellarTracker
On the other hand, Jeff Leve loved it, so that’s a huge warning sign.
Consider Neal, the '01s are still going strong, and you can’t beat the price.
I’ll go out on a limb and second the Calluna wines in addition to the Dunn, Togni, Heitz, Monte Bello, BV, Spottswoode, Mayacamas, Dominus, Chappellet, Montelena, Corison, and Forman mentioned.
Also Acumen, made from Atlas Peak fruit. Also look at Groth, Grgich, Dalla Valle, Staglin, Palmaz, Viader, Fisher. I’ve had them at 20 years so I imagine 25 would be OK. Nobody ever talks about it but Chateau Potelle is another that ages well.
Others I’d look at would include Hewitt, Crocker and Starr, and Beringer.
Pahlmeyer really changed so I wouldn’t include them these days but they were once up there.
Possibles would include Inglenook, Bond, Cardinale, Beckstoffer, Opus One, and Cakebread.
And you may as well include Caymus and Silver Oak. We don’t know the OP’s taste after all.
Okay, I have to make a little confession here: I can’t really much smell or taste wine.
Mostly I feel [in terms of grip, penetration, a sense of layering, and that weird crystalline/metallic/electrolytic/electromagnetic current you sometimes feel with a Riesling in your mouth], and see [in terms of the colors in my mind’s eye, which I understand to be called “synesthesia”] my way through a wine.
But I’ve read a ton of criticisms of young Togni wines over the years
Is this serious?
Then how can you have an opinion at all? The way you experience wine, if accurate, has nothing to do with the way most people do.
So many of these are now over, and some way over, the OP’s price bracket. I just saw Opus is at $350+. Dominus up there, too. Even Spottswood is $225.
As I said, Silver Oak from the 80s were rather classic cabs, and the same is true for Caymus from the 80s/90s. I believe some serious modernization that began in the mid to late 90s puts both outside of what the OP is looking for today. So kind of off topic I guess, my bad.
I’m surprised Mount Eden hasn’t been mentioned yet.
K&L has the 2015 Togni for 129.99.