We had the following last week, and there are my notes, from which I gather that good producers in the northern cote de nuits did well:
2011 esmonin Clos St Jacques. Some oak on the nose, a bit of slight toast, though nicely balanced. Not underripe. On the contrary, most masculine and bold of the three. On the palate, again quite bold and dense, less finesse than the other 2. Good effort overall.
2011 Rousseau clos St Jacques. Great effort. Powdery nose in the sense of a good balance. Red fruits picked up. Very nice. On the palate nice balance overal. Less ripe, more mineral than esmonin. Very good effort.
2011 dugat Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru. Hmmm what is this …delicious nose, picking up the best of the other 2 wines. Strength of esmonin and finesse of Rousseau. Glasses are next to each other so differences are obvious. On the palate again, really magnificent and eye opening. Power and balance and the same time. Unmistakable Gevrey-Chambertin. Excellent effort.
Conclusion : different styles, but all surprising taking into account the not so good reputation of the vintage. Didn’t pick up any underripeness which seems typical of the vintage…
This sounds as equally displeasing as the 2004 Jadot Clos du Ursules that I suffered through the other evening. That, plus more green. I didn’t mind it on release, but it has not aged well.
Interesting, I think it was Jacques Lardiere who stated that in lighter vintages, he uses more new oak in his wines. Recall reading this in BH, which to me seems a bit counter intuitive. Correct me if I am wrong.
I was inspired by this thread to open another of the 2011 Daniel Rion Beaux Monts, and found it to be quite lovely. Yes, there was a hint of green present, and some barrel toast (it faded quicly) but not overwhelming, and there was plenty of body and clarity and complexity to balance that out. I quite liked the spice and snap. It’s not a great Beaux Monts, but it might very well be a great 2011. No complaints here.
A vintage like 2011 is where the top producers stand out. I have had Mugnerert Gibourg’s NSG 1er cru , d’Angerville Champans and Fermints and recently a Barthod Les Cras. All lovely wines, ethereal high toned, no underripe flavors. Certainly not at the level of finer vintages, but delicious wines nonetheless.
However a Hudelot-Baillet les charms, Bruno Clair Bonnes Mars and Grivot Boudots were all underwhelming.
I put the bottle in the fridge when I left on a quick trip, have just revisited it. It hasn’t budged. I’ll have another glass or two tonight with some vaguely Asian, rather spicy pork chops, and the rest will be cooking wine (I don’t like wasting wine, and this remains at the bottom edge of enjoyable).
I don’t argue that in the hands of the best producers, even a vintage like 2011 can produce fine wine. But for the best producers, we’re talking over $50 a bottle (at rock bottom) and I have better uses for that kind of money, such as the plethora of fine Premier Cru wines from the Cote de Beaune available today not only from 2015 and 2016, but from 2009 and 2010. As I said, I really tend to buy Burgundy by vintage and I like wines made from ripe grapes. At some point, the finesse and delicacy I think we all prize in Burgundy becomes not worth it when the wine is also simply too thin and acidic.
No, not sarcastic, just strong personal preference. To me, lamb overpowers pinot noir-based dishes. I’d much rather have a Bordeaux or Bandol or a Northern Rhone. Those match the strength and gaminess of the lamb.
Beef and Burgundy are iconic (after all, it’s Boeuf Bourgignon, not Agneau Bourgignon), but they are definitely not my preference. For me, beef pairs best with the mineral squareness of Atlantic varietals, while lamb pairs best with the rounded earthiness of Pinot Noir, most especially Burgundy.
I guess you are aware that many here dos´t like your description “ripe grapes” of 2009 etc. But I am with you. If acid is the dominating aspect of a wine something went wrong. If its Burgundy or something else.
It breaks my heart to see fellow wine lovers, waste away their hard earned money on a crappy wines. Its the part of the industry that gets me boiling, selling crappy vintages from very average producers/ villages in off vintages. They are sold off as the steal of the century. The only thing is being stole is the money from unsuspecting consumers.
Just because it says 1er cru or grand cru, the wine isn’t going to be good. There is a plethora of crappy grand cru wines costing more than three figures. In this case Jadot - very average, 2011 - poor, Savigny - well nothing to say. That’s three strikes!!
Burgundy is a mine field. Don’t wander about. Go with top quality producers and the great vintages. You will be rewarded for the money you pay. Better to pay $100 for a good bottle of wine than 2 bottles of crappy wines that cost $50!!
For reds stick to the ones that are mentioned, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015. I save money for 2018, its going to be great. And go with high quality producers, you wont regret a post like this!
I find this to be an incredibly condescending and obnoxious post. The egotism to believe that you are the authority on what is worthwhile wine and what is “crap” is astounding. It’s ludicrous to say that only buying top producers in top vintages will be rewarding - and if you do otherwise you are a fool, which is your very clear implication. Most of the people posting in this thread, myself included, are not “unsuspecting consumers…wandering about” We are knowledgeable, know what we like, know where/how to find quality even in off vintages. I don’t have an opinion on the original wine discussed here, as I have never bought or tasted it. But there are plenty of other burgundies from “lesser producers” in “off vintages” that I have and do buy. And they are not crap. There are tons of wine lovers out there who, knowing full well what they are doing, buy a variety of vintages, not just those touted as the best.
I didn’t claim to be an authority. There are plenty of people who taste and report for a living. William (who posts on this forum), Tanzer, Burghound, who have give their thoughts on vintages and wines. I am just reiterating what’s been said by people who taste more than me.
Somehow you seem to be smarter than everyone out there! Finding lovely wines from average producers in off vintages.
Swathing judgements rarely work with Burgundy. Whilst I do not profess to be an expert, my experience shows that when I’ve caught a burgundy in an awkward place like described, just leave it alone for a few years. They invariably come round and turn into something enjoyable. It makes no sense to keep pulling corks on a wine that isn’t delivering anything, and Burgundy is well known for dramatic transitions through aging.
Sit on it for a few years, Dan. I had a case of wine just like this - a Haut Cotes de Nuits from Hervre Murat, 2010 I think. Thin, painfully acidic etc. Last year I decided to try one for the first time in 2 years, and it was magnificent. Gentle and fragile admittedly, but an all round lovely wine.
And I hope I always will be in touch enough with my feelings to call out those acting in what I feel to be a condescending and obnoxious manner.
You certainly did claim to know what constitutes worthwhile wine (top producers in top vintages, by your definition) and to know what is crap - that is what your whole post was about. I do not believe the critics you mention in support have ever even implied that only top producers in top vintages are worth buying. Tanzer, Burghound and other critics often give very good scores and reviews, even in lesser vintages. I know for a fact that Burghound enjoys tasting and drinking a wide variety of levels and vintages, and has called the only-the-best attitude “boring.”
As to your sarcastic closing comment, I do not claim to be smarter than anyone. I bet if you took a poll, you’d find that there are many, many people on this board who have found some lovely wines from less-than-top producers in off vintages. Or perhaps we are all just that much smarter.
The very antithesis of virtually every serious Burgundy student I know. To be fair, you don’t claim to be such a student. Cheers, John Dollar-Sign Smith.
Last time I checked this is a forum for wine, not a forum to talk about one’s feelings about a post. My original post was not addressed to you, and there was no reason to reply to talk about your feelings.
I am sure there are quaffable wines in off vintages. But given a choice, what do they want to drink? A Rousseau Chambertin or a generic one that was not made well. Unlike you not everyone has boat loads of money to spend on every burgundy vintage, across the spectrum of producers. And if you are happy spending $1000 on cases of green, underripe vegetal wines, more power to you. Not everyone can afford to throw away such money.
I was just stating the obvious, stick to great addresses "who makes the wine’ and good vintages where the producers say it was good and the critics too. You will have a good drink for your money. You listen to posts defending vintages like 2011 and random sites, you will have wines like the ones Dan had. Well done Sarah!
Why do you have to make things difficult? For crying out loud!
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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The very antithesis of virtually every serious Burgundy student I know. To be fair, you don’t claim to be such a student. Cheers, John Dollar-Sign Smith.