Interesting. We did a 2004 horizontal last year and the Ponsot CdlR was horrible. I have one left that I will leave for a couple of years out of curiosity. (I had one or two right after release and those were OK)
Thanks for posting this. BTW, was there a link to the 2002s 10 years after?
I actually think 2009 and 2010 are more alike than people think, which will become more clear with time. They both produced concentrated wines, and they both have moderate but not extreme tannin. 2010 has more acidity and 2009 has more fat; the acidity delta won’t change over time but the fat will integrate. 2005 is much more fiercely tannic than either and I am increasingly wondering if the tannin will outlive the fruit. Pinot Noir isn’t supposed to be Leoville Barton.
Here,
http://www.clive-coates.com/tastings/vintage/2002-burgundy-ten-years-on
(Main site:http://www.clive-coates.com/, and left)
Thanks, Roman. Much appreciated…
Glad you liked them Hans. I had the Bouchard CdB last year which was seriously spoiled by GMs. A shame since you could taste the quality behind the green mask.
What a strange vintage…
Herwig,
Could you describe his palate and his preferences since “very poor taster” is a quite straightforward statement
Thanks
I have had alot of the 04 Ponsot CDR. I somehow thought the first bottle was good. One of the worst, if not the worst GM of all 04s. Ponsot did very poorly in 04.
The only '04 Ponsot I’ve had is the clos de la roche and it is, for me, the textbook example of a wine plagued by green meanies. And it is certainly priced accordingly on the secondary market.
A
I did also. Actually quite liked it the first time I had it.
Six months later (and since) it is undrinkable, very green as Alex says…
I tasted the 02s with Louis-Michel and was blown away by the reignots and la romanee and so i bought and cellared the reignots. I could not wait to open and drink a bottle. A couple of months ago i did - at dinner with friends and two other good 02 vosne premier crus. And the reignots was … not good. Smelled strange. Not tca. Smokey. took hours to become attractive.
Post Number:#50 by paul hanna » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:22 am
Kevin Shin wrote:
Ive Marx wrote:
Hans Strand wrote:
Peter,I have had quite a few really great wines from 2004. Everything I have had from Ponsot have been superb: Clos de la Roche, Chapelle-Chambertin and Griotte-Chambertin. Clos de Bèze from Bouchard is in the same league around 95p. These wines are drinking beautifully now and no “Green Meanies”.
Interesting. We did a 2004 horizontal last year and the Ponsot CdlR was horrible. I have one left that I will leave for a couple of years out of curiosity. (I had one or two right after release and those were OK)
I have had alot of the 04 Ponsot CDR. I somehow thought the first bottle was good. One of the worst, if not the worst GM of all 04s. Ponsot did very poorly in 04.
I did also. Actually quite liked it the first time I had it.Six months later (and since) it is undrinkable, very green as Alex says…
I am surprised to hear about your experiences with Ponsot 2004. I have consumed about 3 cases of his Grand Cru wines and none and that is NONE was affected as you put it. They have the characteristic herbal licorice taste of 2004 which I like, but no green elements. Like many times before I wonder if something happens to wine when it is shipped to the US?
I’ve found the Ponsot '04’s to not only be quite GM, but they also have a chemiacal quality to the wine that makes them not really very nice.
BTW,
I am in Oz, long way from the US!
I have no explanation to this, but the wines I have had have been gorgeous. Could it have to do with different batches of wine? I have heard issues with uneven quality from Ponsot before.
The 04 Clos de la Roche I had from Ponsot was undrinkable , not just green meanies . Tried it a few times . This is really sad as this wines is year-in , year-out , a top Burgundy . But something went wrong in 2004 .
Ivan , I can give many examples about Coates . Example : we had him as a guest in Antwerp a couple of years ago . To start , we poured 4 white wines ( 8 tasters ). I did not tell anybody what it was . After smelling the wines , my friend told me that I had included a white wine from California as a ringer . I asked the group to keep quiet and write on a piece of paper which one it was . EVERYBODY got it right , except… yes , Coates . It was a Marcassin and he had never heard about it .
I’ve seen this a few times with so claimed expert tastings . We once had a tasting with Jean-Marc Quarin ( he believes he is the french Parker ) . I offered him 2 wines blind . He trashed wine nr 1 and lauded wine nr 2 . Then I told him one wine was from California and one from Bordeaux . his answer ; it’s obvious : wine nr 1 is California and wine nr 2 is Bordeaux . Of course , he was wrong . Wine nr 1 was Beausejour Duffau 1990 and wine nr 2 was Dominus 1991 . But not only was he unapologetic , he changed his view and at the end of the evening , he was criticising the Dominus and applauding the BD . What a fraud .
The best taster I ever saw was Antonio Galloni . We were at a dinner in NY and he was offered a wine blind . Pahlmeyer cabernet , he said , and it was correct . ( this was when he just started at the wine advocate , I thought he focused exclusively towards Italian wines ). amazing palate .
this site,i find also interesting(for me);
What can I say? My Ponsot Clos de La Roche 2004 have all been great wines. Always rated around 95p and I have had about 18 bottles. That latest bottle consumed about a year ago. Obviously some of his wines were OK. I have had this wine in tasting groups and everyone have loved them. I still have 2 bottles left. To check I will open one next week. To be continued.
Herwig Janssen said:
I’ve seen this a few times with so claimed expert tastings . We once had a tasting with Jean-Marc Quarin ( he believes he is the french Parker ) . I offered him 2 wines blind . He trashed wine nr 1 and lauded wine nr 2 . Then I told him one wine was from California and one from Bordeaux . his answer ; it’s obvious : wine nr 1 is California and wine nr 2 is Bordeaux . Of course , he was wrong . Wine nr 1 was Beausejour Duffau 1990 and wine nr 2 was Dominus 1991 . But not only was he unapologetic , he changed his view and at the end of the evening , he was criticising the Dominus and applauding the BD . What a fraud .
I don´t think it is so easy to say which is which between Beausejour Duffau and Dominus. Dominus is very french in style. If you had served Pahlmeyer it would have been a totally different case.
The point is that he changed his mind after he knew what they were .
Another Quarin sory : we had a blind tasting between Bordeaux and California , approx. 10 wines , 5 of each region . Quarin was invited by our wine club here in Antwerp . Of all the tasters , he identified the least ones correct ( sounds like Jeff Leve during the Cali-Bordeaux tasting from le Grand Jury ) . That did not prevent him , after the identification , to stand up and start lecturing us about how these wines tasted .
Herwig,
As you can expect my experience exactly mirrors yours but perhaps not the same critics. I heard one incident where Antonio didn’t do as well but that can happen to anyone and Antonio is my go to critic for Italian and Burgundy. If I were to buy Cali wines, I would also follow him as his palate aligns with mine.
I think the 90 Beausejour Duffau and the 91Dominus may have been a tough call. The issue for me is the fact that he changed his view which you and I have seen in the past.
Regarding Pahlmeyer cab, did Antonio see the bottle? I know Antonio is an honest guy but the temptation is always there. I once saw a very well known European sommelier calling a wine Haut Brion after looking at the bottle.
BTW, you may recall the GJE Cal cab vs Bordeaux tasting. Two tasters got less than 50%, one is a very well known Burgundy writer, the other is now well known.