2009 Burgundy ,Clive Coates

WINE TALK
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[scratch.gif] Hmm, OK. To each his own I guess.

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Looking through Clive’s ratings of individual wines, I don’t think I have ever seen such consistently high scores from him. Jasper Morris, who tasted these wines with Coates, feels that in 20 years the 09 vintage will be hailed as great, surpassing 2010 if not 2005. Right now they’re perhaps too flattering to be taken seriously by many.

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Hope so, as even though I have whined about them a bit, I still have a whole bunch of them…

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The 2009 wines showed much more structure from barrel than they do from bottle for the moment. We should just leave the wines for a while and cross our fingers.

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I haven’t had a 2009 since I was in France a year ago. Last night, in the name of science, I unplugged a 2009 Bouchard Volnay Clos des Chenes 1er. It was a compendium of the comments in this thread. Rich. Easy. Semi-sweet, but not confected. Silky.

I’m a huge fan of the 2002 vintage. In a weird way, it did kind of remind me of some 2002s, but there was a touch more acidity in this bottle and a little more sweet. Hard to say much from one bottle, but when this experience was similar to the bottles I had upon release.

This is a vintage I’m glad I bought. I’ll probably be looking to pick up some more down the line when they go on sale.

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The 2002 wines never had this abundant amount of fruit which you find in 2009. Therefore I can not any obvious similarity. I also think that 2002 has a harder core to resolve.

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Paul if you ever want to lighten up on 2009 because you’re concerned how it turns out, I’m happy to be a good guy and take them off your hands (for a 15% discount from what you paid, of course) neener

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Hans, I wouldn’t quarrel with you. Maybe the similarity ends at “I think they’re both good vintages.”

I have always thought 2002 was a good vintage from top to bottom and north to south. I drank fewer of them in the 3-8 age time frame, but I don’t ever remember drinking one I thought was “closed.” The 2009 I had last night was certainly not closed. When, if at all, do you see the 2009s shutting down? I’ve read the 2008s are going to sleep. I’m not sure the 2007s will shut down per se (well in any event I’m planning on drinking quite a few young).

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My take too, with (very) limited sampling.

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Scott,
Closed is perhaps the wrong word to describe the 2009. I would rather say clogged by baby fruit. You simply don´t get to “the inside” of the wines. They were much nicer to drink right after bottling. I personally don´t open anything else than very basic Burgundies from 2009 for the moment.

Some 2008 are closed down. 2007: quite a few are already showing well and are open for business. It is no hurry to pull corks though, but I must say that I like the vintage for its lightness. The reds are superb wines with fish. If all vintages were like 2005 and 2009 we would not have anything to drink.

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Interesting. My view is almost the exact opposite of Hans’ view. On release, I thought the wines shared a common feature of generally having a roasted character that muddied differences in terroir/style and generally made the wines uninteresting to my palate. I still bought a pretty decent amount of wine, but ended up with sort of a hodgepodge of wines that are very different than what I would typically buy. I’ve popped a few recently and while it is a relatively small sample size, I think that the roasted character has started to mellow out and leave more interesting structure and nuance than what I noticed previously. I didn’t find any of the wines to be anything near “closed” in the traditional sense, and I’ve been picking a few more here and there at good prices.
A

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How about some 2004 red… pileon

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Hans, sorry but I can’t agree. If any vintage was fruit driven it was 2002, certainly in the Cote de Nuits. Some Pommards had highish tannins, but I expect no more than 2009. Across the Cote the wines are very much fruit driven. I was in Burgundy at vintage during 2002 and the grapes had thin skins and very ripe hard small seeds, bunches were tight, almost impossible to pick single grapes off them, you could eat them like a pear. Most criticism of 2002 at the GC top end is the lack of tannic structure. You must have some wines in mind ?

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Post by Mike During » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:00 pm

Hans Strand wrote:The 2002 wines never had this abundant amount of fruit which you find in 2009. Therefore I can not any obvious similarity. I also think that 2002 has a harder core to resolve.


Mike During wrote:
Hans, sorry but I can’t agree. If any vintage was fruit driven it was 2002, certainly in the Cote de Nuits. Some Pommards had highish tannins, but I expect no more than 2009. Across the Cote the wines are very much fruit driven. I was in Burgundy at vintage during 2002 and the grapes had thin skins and very ripe hard small seeds, bunches were tight, almost impossible to pick single grapes off them, you could eat them like a pear. Most criticism of 2002 at the GC top end is the lack of tannic structure. You must have some wines in mind ?

I refer to producers like Rousseau, Bouchard, Montille and Pousse d`OR.

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Peter,

I have had quite a few really great wines from 2004. Everything I have had from Ponsot have been superb: Clos de la Roche, Chapelle-Chambertin and Griotte-Chambertin. Clos de Bèze from Bouchard is in the same league around 95p. These wines are drinking beautifully now and no “Green Meanies”.

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I have wines from these producers other than Pousse d’OR, still maintain the vintage is fruit driven compared to the likes of 99 and 05.
Aubert de Villaine comment regards 2002 from Tanzer - “It’s a very good vintage that produced extremely nice wines, but it’s not 1999. And it’s not a particularly powerful vintage.”

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Vosne-Romanée, Aux Reignots, Domaine du Vicomte Liger-Belair 15.0 From 2019
Medium-full colour. Ripe, spicy nose. Not a lot of distinction here. Medium to medium-full body. Quite sweet. Not a lot of grip. A bit astringent. Unexciting.

One of the best wines I tasted this year … Coates is a very poor taster , always has been.

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Herwig,
I also loved the wine. The Domaine is producing great wines.

Posted from CellarTracker

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Hans…I really should not post anything about 2004 red. My message was just a joke to have some fun.

In any event if any posters here has respect to Jasper Morris or owner of his new book, please read his assessment of 2004 red. I was surprise of his assessment…

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All Liger-Belair wines were sold within a few hours of the release in Montreal, P.Q. Canada.