best since 1996 is the street word I have heard re 2008. Maybe Brad will chime in.
The cream that you refer to - is that more of a textural thing with respect to the bubbles, or a taste thing? I’ve never had a champagne older than 20 years or so
It is more a reference to taste. I love champagne, but I have to be in the right mood for it- so I have far fewer notes for it than most wines. When I first got into wine in the mid 90s, old champagne was not really a hot topic. There were collectors out there who were absolutely fanatical about them- but they had not captured the attention of the wine world in a way that would happen a decade later.
My moment came in 2009- I went to NYC for one of those massive auction dinners, and among the things I brought along was a bottle of 1966 Dom Perignon which had come from one of several 3 bottle verticals of “Recently Disgorged” Dom Perignon that I got when I was living in Austin on sale because back in the late 90s $1,000 for a 3 pack of Dom- no matter the age- just wasn’t going to work. The 3 packs had been stored in a beer cooler for almost 10 years, and the store was closing. Right place and time. There was no P1, 2 or 3 back then- just these occasional RD releases.
It was a turning point for me, and I have never looked at champagne the same again. At a certain age, the effervescence starts to fade- still there, but subdued, and on the palate there is a wonderful creamy texture and taste that just takes over. The acid finish is still there keeping it all in check, but it is subdued. Doesn’t always happen this way- in large part because pristine storage is critical for champagne- but when the stars align it is an incredible experience.
The best comparison I can think of is some of the white burgundies which are very well grounded in a firm structure, but also show a good deal of creaminess in time. Ramonet and Sauzet are the best comparisons- for certain vintages and vineyards.
Speaking of which- Alan, I do not follow the wine press at all any more. Glad to know my 08 champagne impressions are not far off the mark. If I may offer another prediction based on a recent tasting of the Chassagne Vergers- keep a close eye on 2014 Ramonet 
Tom–would love to continue my decades-long love affair w Ramonet–you clued me long ago into the amazing 01s. But prices for grand crus have TRIPLED in my market and I just can’t pull the trigger when I also factor in the significant premox rate.
While increased pricing will be an inevitability, another consideration is the increased aging curve for magnums, a real factor I’m sure for many participating in this thread.
I assume this is the logic: Producers know that buyers are willing to pay a premium for magnums, especially for Champagne, and some producers choose to maximize their revenue from a short-supply/high-demand vintage. I wonder, though, will these producers suffer in the longer term, if regular buyers are excluded by price or supply from buying bottles in some premium vintages? Will they lose customers?
2008 is a very, very good year. Easily the best since 96 and could be better. We have to see. I do think we will see some mistakes with 2008 as we did with 96. It is a high acid year and releasing a non-malo, oak aged, low dosage wine may not be the best thing for this year. Pinot Meunier was best with Pinot Noir right behind it. The Chardonnay was also great, but overall, I find it a year where the Pinots shine. A year to look for balance, Pinot driven wines, and Roses.
I actually think 2012 has more going for it than 2008 with the only downside to 2012 is that the Pinots are amazing, but the Chardonnay only very good. 2009 is also way better than I think most folks thought it would be.
Simply put, loading up on 2008, 2009, and 2012 is a smart move.
As others said, 2006 is a nice year, but it is a heavier, open year. Vintage worthy, but not great and probably not going to be the longest lived of years.
Have always enjoyed your insight…drift thread. When will the 2008’s start hitting the market? Turns out my wife loves good champagne, so we stalked up on the 06 Dom that we had pouring during our wedding. My palate isnt refined enough with champ to really delineate “excellent” from “outstanding” but I would like to build out a decent cache of champagnes over the next couple years.
The 2008 Pierre Peters Les Chetilions is out there.
So, maybe I missed it, but why is Salon only going to bottle in Magnums? It’s not a complaint, just genuine curiosity.
A lot of 2008 wines are already out on the market especially from the smaller producers (some have been out for a number of years). Most producers regardless of size have already released their basic vintage wines from the year. The prestige cuvees are not yet out in most cases. A number of producers actually released 2009 before 2008 or are planning to. With 2009 being so open and 2008 being much more tightly wound, this makes sense.
Thomas,
The simple answer is “because they can”, but there is a bit more to it. Salon got a lot of good juice in 2008, but there was a smaller than normal quantity of what I would call “great juice”. Salon often makes between 60-80k bottles a year (of which a few thousand are magnums) and when they decided to only use the “great juice” from 2008, the quantity was going to drop to around 20k bottles. With the rising demand for magnums and the choice to cut quantity and really try and make 2008 something extra special, a battle ensued between how many bottles vs. magnums. At the end of the day, they decided to just bottle it all in magnum so ~10k magnums are going to be released. When you factor in the premium they are likely going to charge/get, it isn’t a bad decision. Where it will get interesting is in when and how the 08 is released. Salon made a vintage in 06 and 07 so there will be supply of vintages on the market when the 08 comes out, but the next vintage after 08 is 2013. That is a long wait and with only 10,000 magnums of 08 in supply, prices could get rather stupid.
Depending on the economy, I’d guess $1500-$2000 per.
Ray,
And, considering if bottles would have sold for $400-$500 when it comes out, that is a nice premium.
It is, but will pale in comparison to the premium '96 DP P2 mags will get when they are released.
The regular Taittinger vintage '08 is available now for £120 a mag. It was the best young champagne I tasted last year, so I stocked up on it. Not keeping my powder in the keg for Salon, or even the Comtes; at the most recent vintage comparisons I’ve had of the two (05s and 06s) the regular vintage has actually had the edge.
Not trying to be argumentative but how can we speculate on price years before the wine is released.
yeah, we’ll just wait till you offer it on Commerce Corner.
Yeah, but at least DP released the 96 P2 in regular bottles and kind of gave us a P2.5 in bottle with the 2013 disgorgement. Not hard to find and only $250-$300 for most folks. I guess I see late releases as different than initial releases. I would understand if DP took a P2 to all Mag; not happy, but I would understand. At least the regular release was out in different formats.
That being said, I have no problem with Salon doing what they are doing. They know their market and think it will be a success.
what’s the difference between 96 P2 and 96 Oeno? Just disgorgement date?
C,
Don’t ask questions such as this one when there really isn’t a good, logical, or perfectly clear answer. ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
The answer is maybe, kinda, sorta. It isn’t officially out yet so you cannot yet say for certain.