2007 Rayas - Bad News

WINE TALK
#1

I was so looking forward to tasting this for the first time at Jingsik in NYC last night but sadly the wine was unstable and suffering from secondary fermentation…you’d get the same experience for a much better price by going to your corner store and buying a can of root beer!

I do love a good Rayas but after a very poor 2000 recently, an excellent 2004 and this disaster it might be time to move on, which is sad as I have been fortunate enough to enjoy so many great vintages from this once remarkable producer.

MT

#2

I have a case and this is the first comment I have seen from anyone other than rave reviews. I guess I’ll have to open one soon to see…

#3

I have had this wine on two occasions and both times was disappointed by the over ripe raisiny flavors but did not experience any signs of secondary fermentation. There is a good possibility that there is a level of residual sugar in the wine and a secondary fermentation has occurred. I really liked the 2006 Ch Rayas so I would not give up on them yet. Still my favorite CNDP producer.

#4

+1.
And multiple vintages of Pignan have been excellent.

#5

I have to agree with Mr Mack on the 2007. I’ve had once, I think twice, and I was not impressed with it either. I thought the wine to me seemed too big. Have yet to try the 2007 Pignan…anyone have any experience with that yet?

Side note–the 2006 Pignan is drinking like a champ right now. And too, the 2006 Rayas, as Jim mentions.

#6

Hey Frank,

I have tried the 2007 Pignan and it too has an over ripe component to it but not to the degree of the CH Rayas. I am not going to touch these wines for a while and see if they balance out a bit.

#7

For this one, I’d blame 2007 before I’d blame Rayas. (w/r/t overripeness, not the in-bottle fermentation).

#8

We had a bottle somewhat recently and all thought it was outstanding. Bottle variation? One of the best bottles of Rayas I’ve had to date.

#9

We had one also and although it was opened later it showed really well. Yes it reflects the vintage but then shouldn’t it ? I have a 6 pack that will be killer in my old age.

#10

What kinda prices are people seeing for the 07 Rayas?

#11

I saw 190 quid (apprx. $300) the other day.

#12

Hahaha, we did? I will have to ask Klinger about it!

#13

Upper echelon vineyards in what have historically been marginal climates have been prized for their capacity to ripen fruit even in tough vintages. In an era of global warming, how marginal are these climates? Shouldn’t we expect hot vintages in the best ripening vineyards to have negative effects? Even average vintages yield consistently good if not excellent results.

The effect of a ‘great’ vintage should not be a multiplier of quality across the board. (Producer A + Grand Cru Vineyard) * vintage quality–something like (90 + 4) * 1.05 = 99 points or $200 * 1.5= $300–is not the correct model. Even if that’s how critics and the market treats it. If a producer can consistently produce very ripe, powerfully structured wines, I don’t see how adding more of those components ends up making a better wine.

#14

Amen!

#15

Justin Bonner generously shared a bottle and it was flirting with perfection.

Posted from CellarTracker

#16

Kevin,

Did a “hint of fizz” concern you in a dry red wine? Maybe this is what Michael Twelftree was identifying as secondary fermentation. Fizz would be a flaw in my book. Any winemakers out there who can comment on this?

Jim

#17

Tasted twice, first from casks (3 different cuvées) in September 2008, then from bottle in April 2011 in my annual vintage tasting.
See also here: 2008 BURGUNDY & RHONE tasting in Graz - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

I wrote:
#25: very saturated bright ruby, initially strange nose, very intense, even pungent, kind of volatile, but it blew off more and more, underneath a monster of a wine, fleshy, chewy, sweet, mouthfilling, a sea of cherry fruit with very intense spices, lingering endlessly on the palate, immensly complex and deep, this wine will become a legend … but at the moment it behaves like a „Jinn“ in the bottle who wants to escape the cork.
Re-tasted the next day the „stink“ had gone, remaining an intense, voluptuous intense great wine, the essence of …
…
Grenache!

This was Chateau Rayas 2007 !
My rating: 98+?p - with reservations regarding the nose (only 1 vote from the group)
If I hadn´t known better I had guessed that the wine has been bottled a week before (in fact it has been in the bottle for two years), so young, so sauvage and untamed it behaved. Maybe also a less than perfect bottle, although I bought it at the Chateau myself and brought it to my cellar together with all other 2008s.

Well, I could understand if somebody would not trust that it will develope positively, but I´m certain. This will be the best Rayas after 1989/90, in fact more like 1989, but it needs time!

Addition: this wine is certainly not for everybody, it is massive, very intense and concentrated - but not unbalanced alcoholic … I had absolutely no 2nd fermentation nor any CO2.
(I cannot exclude that due to rather warm shipping or storage something “happens” in the bottle … but not with my bottles from the Chateau)

For people who exspect a wine like the 2004 or 2006 Rayas I would recommend NOT to open a bottle now, better in another 10 years - and it will need a LOT of time to reach its prime.

It may not help, but 2008 and 2011 are also very successful, but much closer to the 2006-style, 2010 something between 1990 and 1995 … 2009 between 2003 and 2001 or 2005, all great wines.

#18

Was reluctant to chime in as my experience isn’t solely or specifically Rayas related, but I have had quite a few 07 CdPs (including Rayas) that have been over-the-top for my tastes, with a couple of them showing signs of a secondary fermentation of some sort. Generally, I haven’t been a fan of the wines and don’t tend to think they will improve with age — quite the contrary. I much prefer the 09s and, from the more limited number that I have tried, the 2010s.

Greg brings up the point that “shouldn’t we expect hot vintages in the best ripening vineyards to have negative effects” – and while I get his point, I also don’t believe that quality is entirely determined by location and weather. There is also the opportunity that vineyard owners and winemakers have to learn from various vintages and adapt grape growing and winemaking. I’d expect that if another 2007 occured, winemakers in CdP would, as a whole, make better wines that time around…having learned from what they did and did not do the first time around.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

#19

Simple: if one doesn´t like the style of the vintage one should not buy!

#20

…oolong tea,…

Kevin - interesting TNs.

oolong tea - [dance-clap.gif]

There is an old saying in China : Wine could replace tea; but tea could never replace wine [wink.gif]