2001 Pavie, or how predictions are hard, especially about the future

WINE TALK
1

If this website had a search function, you could go back more than a few years and find posts in which I argued with (or at least expressed some reservations about) the then-de rigueur view that “these modern wines like Pavie will never age properly.” I pointed to this wine, the 01 Pavie, in particular. I said that the 01 was nothing like the cartoonish 03, and was actually pretty enjoyable in its youth. I made the entirely sensible point that we could not really say how the wine would age until it actually had, that the wine appeared to be both “modernist” and reasonably well-mannered. I thought that those who were willing to slag the style as destined for the ash-heap of history might be rushing things a wee bit.

I was was right to take a wait and see position.

I waited.

I’ve seen.

Where is the line for changing sides?

I suppose it is still possible that a miracle will occur, but at 17 years of age, you’d reasonably expect to see something more than merely an older wine. You’d expect to see a more mature wine.

Didn’t last night. The wine has slimmed down a little – it no longer has the same exuberant fruit it had way back when (which is not a positive in my view) – but has shed none of the tannin that it had when it was young, and if anything, the tannins seem rougher and more wood-born than before. It is still inky black, still sorta slick on the tongue, and really, not terribly appealing. I hasten to add that it wasn’t actually awful; I did not pour it down the drain (Alfert might have). But if you had told me it was an 08 Monbousquet I would not have given it a second thought.

And 2008 Monbousquet doesn’t go for more than 2 bills.

So from now on, I’ll leve (see what I did there?) the defense of Pavie to others. I would not rain on their parade, but from where I sit, the parade has been canceled.

2

Seems like the only option is to wait longer still, if the tannins still outweigh the fruit. Maybe more in hope than expectation.

Fair play to you for saying “I may have been wrong”. It always reflects well on someone with the good grace to accept such things.

3

Neal… I had the 01 Pavie a week ago, and I really liked it. I had not tasted it for 3-4 years. I found it loaded with flowers, minerality and with great texture. https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/bordeaux-wine-producer-profiles/bordeaux/st-emilion/pavie/

4

Well, thank you for taking up the standard!

I’m glad you enjoyed it. It’s totally ok for you to be wrong. [snort.gif] [tease.gif] [berserker.gif]

5

I promise to let you know when that happens neener

And what are you doing taking tasting lessons from Alfert?

6

Ian, admitting when I am wrong has become second nature, but as my wife would likely point out, I have had a ton of practice.

Jeff, don’t tell anyone I said so, but I am trying to slowly draw my friend Robert away from those V-8 chinons he likes. Green stalk wine.

7

Sorta the drum that I have been beating for some time now, these modern darlings do not age and morph into true beauties like what we expect from classic Bordeaux. That’s my opinion after drinking full bottles of well over 100 of them at various stages of maturity. I do not buy any. None.

8

I had a bottle about 6-months ago that was frigging awesome…deep fruit, with a mineral backbone, and classic Bordeaux dirt. It is definitely a wine on the bigger side, I wouldn’t call it elegant, but is sure was tasty

9

Perfect timing - I have a bottle on deck, and now I’m worried about it! I thought a “modern” Bordeaux like this would be near peak right about now.

Whether you liked it or not, what kind of air treatment is everyone giving their bottles?

10

Don’t despair Eric; lots of people like this wine. I opened it around 4:30 or 5, then drank it over the next 4-5 hours. Last glass was the best, FWIW

11

Lol.

Senior DC Counsel is a man of fine taste and distinction! His palate is just a bit old to capture the flavor of Chinon!

12

That was just beautiful.

13

Always interesting to read such posts. 2001 Pavie is a wine I was served blind at a wine dinner in London in maybe 2004 or so, and hated it. Too much of everything and yet zero balance. It’s the wine that put the final nail in the coffin of my Bordeaux buying. I couldn’t see it aging well at that time, with the knowledge I could very well be wrong. Haven’t looked back.

14

This is one of the things that makes wine so hard in following the advice of others. Different people have vastly different tastes.

15

Jeff, there are worse things. Neal could be taking tasting lessons from ME and be turning into a Burg freak. [wow.gif]

16

Why would you let this be a proxy for all Bordeaux. One can easily buy wines like Ducru, Montrose, etc., and still get classic Bordeaux. Not all Bordeaux are made like Pavie.

17

[quote=“Howard Cooper” post_id=2579825
This is one of the things that makes wine so hard in following the advice of others. Different people have vastly different tastes.
[/quote]

Very well said, Howard

18

I have had the 2001 Pavie three times. Given that this is some of the finest terroir in Saint Emilion, I am sorry this was ever made. My initial notes talk about extraction, tannin and dullness. 2 years later nothing changed and the final time I tasted it was at a large Pavie vertical a few years ago, and it has softened slightly but the dullness remains.

I have to say I hated most of the Pavie that day from great and poor vintages alike. The exceptions, a great 1998 and an ok 2006. So many possibly great wines from such a great terroir never made.

19

I agree; making Pavie the arbiter of whether or not you like Bordeaux is like deciding to make 50 Shades of Gray your determinant as to whether or not you like literature.

20

I buy a $16.99 local chinon feet away from Alfert’s doorstep that’s better than any Pavie I’ve consumed.