Taking the boys 11 and 15 to Europe next summer. This will be there second trip. 1st trip was just Portugal for a week.
Looking at the big 2 - Paris and Rome. Would you do 1 week at each or is that too much? Am I better going to France only and spending my time in Paris, Normandy, Loire, Provence etc or just going to Italy spending 2 weeks at Rome, Tuscany, Florence etc.
As we approach the college years with the eldest his choice of schools will limit long expensive trips like this so although I feel 1 country is probably the best I have a fear of “missing out” as I don’t know when I can get them back.
I’ll go with spending more time in one county than trying to fit both in large cities in such a short period. History: Italy
Its hard to beat well-documented historical sites and perspectives that Italy showcases all the way from the BC era. I’ve traveled one too many times with young adults about the same age as yours and found that they were much more engaged with Roman (and Italian) historical facts than the French ones.
Food: France
From a personal point of view, French food offers much, much more in terms of variety and flavor and they simply are much more intimate and takes the production of any food items much deeper from their hearts and souls.
Unless your kids are motivated foodies, you will find it easy to please everyone with excellent Italian pastas and pizzas and gelatos. Hence, Italy can work too.
Culture: Italy
I think Italian culture and local norms, especially outside of major cities are more defined and much more practiced.
2 out of 3 listed requirements wins it for Italy, imho.
5 days Paris
4 days Venice
4 days Tuscany (drivable from VCE)
Option 1: Paris and/or Venice +
4 days Prague (Praha) <<< useful info when looking at European maps.
3 days Vienna (Wein)
Option 2: Paris and/or Venice
4 days Barcelona
4 days Madrid
Over the years, our travel philosophy has changed. We like to visit a city and take it all in. On our first trip to Paris, we killed ourselves. We never had that half day to just hang out enjoying a coffee or coke at an outdoor cafe. Future trips to that city and other places above always had an extra day or 2 to fully appreciate the host city. We stopped the If It’s Tuesday it must be Belgium trips years ago.
Paris is truly amazing from both a culture and food standpoint. I thought Rome was great, but dirty and run down. Food wasn’t so good either. If I could plan the ultimate 2 week trip and only include France and Italy it would be as follows:
Paris - 5 days
French Countryside - 2 days (on the way to Italy)
Venice - 2 days
Florence - 3 days
Rome - 2 Days
Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. The original plan was to rent an apartment in Paris for a week than another in Rome for a week. The more I read the more I am thinking I don’t want to spend an entire week in Rome. Rome itself is pretty important to my older son. He has been studying Latin for 3 years and really enjoys it.
What about Sicily? I have read that from a historical perspective it is amazing and the food is not too bad either.
If you should find yourself in southern France (ie if you decide to go to Barcelona) would definitely recommend a stop at some of the abandoned Cathar castles - that is something I would think most kids would love (as long as you trust them - not so many guard rails!).
I would not do venice for 4 days in any event, but certainly not with kids. However…
Are you set on Paris? Another approach would be to do an all-Italy trip - venice for a couple of days, Florence, Rome, perhaps Sicily (not been myself). You can easily train between venice, Florence and Rome. Pompeii would be a cool place to visit if you were going down to Sicily too.
I do agree with Dan that spending significant time in a city is better than the 1-2 days… with the exception of Venice which seemed small and with fewer places to just hang out. However, it’s a cool city and worth a couple of days. So, something like:
Fly into Venice. Spend arrival day and 2 more days there. Train to Florence (about a half-day). Spend 4-6 days there. Do side trips tothe Cinqueterre, Lucca, Pisa if you want. Daytrip to Sienna or just move down there for a couple of days. Train to Rome, spend 4-6 days there.
Alternately, skip Venice, fly into Florence. Spend 4-6 days there, train to Rome, spend 4-6 days there, if you have time, fly to Palermo, 3-5 days. Adjust the times in each city according to interest.
Another possibility. 5-7 days in Paris, 3 days in Rome and drive down to the Amalfi for the balance (where you can split your time hanging out in Positano, Amalfi and Ravello and visiting Pompei and Herculaneum if your kids are into that sort of thing). I’d also add couple of days to the trip if you could.
Personally, I would spend my time in Paris and Provence, but the kids might not enjoy hanging in the countryside as much as the adults.
I love Paris - probably my favorite city for visiting in the world.
but Rome is definitely not rundown or dirty… the food is great if you go to the right places… In fact I prefer the food in Rome to Paris on ‘an average day’… Paris certainly has iconic restaurants, but eating it day in and day out I find too heavy.
You need 3 days minimum to adequately see Rome… 1 full day at Vatican, 2 days to see the other sites around Rome… which are numerous and amazing.
I also like Dan’s suggestion of Prague and Vienna… 2 weeks… too short!
Day 1 Flight in
Day 2 - Paris arrival - acclimate
Day 3-5 - Paris
Day 6 - Travel to Venice
Day 7-8 - Venice
Day 9 - Travel to Rome & half day in Rome
Day 10 - 12 - Rome
Day 13 - Depart
Day 14 - arrive home
I think I’ve done pretty much all of the above, plus some more. And with teenagers (at the time). I’d suggest London (boys your sons’ ages love London), Eurostar to Paris and stay a while, then drive to Normandie and spend a few days or fly LHR-CDG, pick up a car and drive to Normandie, then visit Paris at the end. 3 nights in Normandie is plenty, allows for two days of touring and exploration. You can drive down to Brittany if you wish, but London, Normandie, and Paris would be a very nice trip that would minimize travel time and maximize enjoyment time.
The other trip for boys your sons’ ages that I would recommend would be Rome, Naples/Vesuvius, Amalfi Coast. Lots of small towns and Capri to explore by passenger ferry, with time at the end of the day to relax poolside or beachside.
I think three days in Rome is cutting it too short, even if the travel days to and from Rome are not included. I’d opt for 4, maybe 5. On of the nice things about traveling Florence>Rome is that the train trip is 2 hours - if you can grab a 9 or 10am departure you’re in Rome for lunch.
I like Mark’s first idea.
One thing to consider is that Rome gets pretty d__n hot in the dead of summer. I have found it much more enjoyable in the spring or fall. But if it’s important to your older son, I would try to make the trip just as soon as school lets out.
My first (loaded?) question would be re: culture. The way I think about it, it’s pretty much impossible to experience culture without speaking the language. Isn’t anything else is just “change of scenery”? So if there’s a language you (or one member of your family) are more comfortable with, I’d say this would be an important point.
Re: history and food, both France and Italy have strong cases. I personally love Paris, of course, and I think it’d be a shame to go all the way to Europe and not experience it. It’s a city that’s so rich that I don’t think it really mattes if you spend 2 days or 2 years there, in a way. In 2 days you’ll get to see the main attractions, and after it’s “to infinity and beyond” as you’re unlikely to ever run out of things to do, see, experience, etc.
Especially if you have the opportunity to rent a flat, I’d go for one week in Paris and one week in Rome, and buy fresh products from time to time and eat at home. Sadly, there’s not always the opportunity to experience some of the best a country has to offer in terms of food, only by going to restaurants. You could stay in France for weeks and still not get to experience saucisson, rillettes, a simple éclair and so on.
I would also not miss Rome. It’s a great city, and completely different from Paris. Hard not be awed by the Roman ruins (in particular the Coliseum). I’ve not been to Sicily or Venice so far, so can’t comment on that, but Tuscany is very good too. Florence is outstanding, and not far away from Sienna, San Giminiani or Pisa.
I would echo the earlier comment re the heat. Rome and southern italy can be extremely hot in the summer and what aircon there is is usually pretty useless. For boys that age they could get pretty frazzled quickly.
Picking up on guillaume’s point re experiencing the culture without speaking the language. Assuming they don’t speak french or italian, this is an argument for the UK. Although the culture gap is narrower, it’s certainly pretty wide (!), particularly the further you get from London (which I would strongly encourage). There’s plenty of roman stuff to do in England too if that’s important, especially in northumberland (hadrian’s wall and all the forts there in particular) which would be an ideal place to stop on the way to edinburgh and the highlands of scotland.
A 2 week tour of the UK with the first 3-4 days in London would be a great trip. You could do a day in one of Oxford/Cambridge, then Stratford on Avon, Chatsworth, the Lake district (2-3 days of beautiful walks/scenery), newcastle/northumberland (easily 2-3 days covering hadrian’s wall and all the castles there), edinburgh, the highlands then back home.
I don’t think the language issue should be a deal breaker.
I speak good French but very little Italian. Paris is my favorite city, but I enjoy Florence almost as much.
As I think about it, most boys your sons’ age would likely enjoy Venice quite a bit. (As I look back over the thread, I see others are of the same mind.) A week combining Florence and Venice should be a hit. If they start to flag at some point, hit a gelato stand.
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