12 Angry men: Who Are They

[jcoley3]

@Philip Ente

As M. Kaplan stated above, it is not a matter of wine snobism but rather wine- food paring.

Should have specified the menu at Marea rather than making a generic comment about Italian food.

I think Philip is kind of right that Marea’s menu isn’t where I would think classified Medoc. Based on the menu, it really is a place where Italian wines and a little bit of Burgundy will shine - I say that based on dining with an old school NY importer who set up our night featuring his wines from Italy and Burgundy…

That said, based on the neighborhood, I’m sure there are plenty of expensive wines forced on the food.

And it would be the kind of place where JK and others would do it and brag later.

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

Discretion, taste, appropriateness and moderation are not Kapon’s style…

[Craig_G]

Just for the record, you can open LLC for me on any occasion with any food and I promise not to call you a jerk.

[Tom_Blach]

@Gabriel Herrmann

@Tom Blach

To posit that bordeaux wines don’t go with Italian food is merely to state the obvious, as it it is to say that piedmontese wines don’t go with tuscan dishes.

with all due respect, this is a ridiculous statement – one that is akin to saying that meat doesn’t go with sauce. are there some italian dishes that are not well paired with bordeaux wines? I should think almost certainly so. but the notion that no italian dish could ever “go” with bordeaux is, frankly, absurd.

I don’t think you have quite understood. Never mind.

[Guillaume_Deschamps]

@Tom Blach

I don’t much enjoy French wines in any other context, Brian.

Agreed. Almost 100% of my cellar is French. Luckily there’s no other country producing food worth eating, so I’m all good.

[StevenB]

So, is drinking Ornellaia or Sassicaia with a Bistecca alla Fiorentina ok, but not Bordeaux?

[Ken_V]

@StevenB

So, is drinking Ornellaia or Sassicaia with a Bistecca alla Fiorentina ok, but not Bordeaux?

And god forbid, Ch. Montelena Cab!

[Tom_Blach]

@StevenB

So, is drinking Ornellaia or Sassicaia with a Bistecca alla Fiorentina ok, but not Bordeaux?

A good question, considering the relative anonymity of these particular Tuscan wines. Of course in the end one should please oneself, but to me part of the happiness of eating a bistecca is the opportunity to enjoy an appropriate wine; it is rare that I consume either so it would be a terrible shame if I didn’t.

[WvanGorp]

@Ken V

@Philip Ente

Interesting- Was at Marea recently and saw bottles of Leoville Las Cases and Bechyville going by and I remarked to my friend, Wilfred van Gorp- what kind of jerk drinks Medocs with Italian food?

Did he seem offended at your comment? I ask because one time not too long ago, Wilfred posted a photo of a Bordeaux which he had brought with him to RPM Italian. I jokingly teased him about bringing Bordeaux to an Italian restaurant. I did not think to call him a jerk.

It went beautifully with the aged prime porterhouse the chef sources from a purveyor in the Bronx.

[WvanGorp]

@Ken V

@StevenB

So, is drinking Ornellaia or Sassicaia with a Bistecca alla Fiorentina ok, but not Bordeaux?

And god forbid, Ch. Montelena Cab!

The Montelena also went well with the porterhouse (I have to start getting something different at RPM).

[Fred_Bower]

@Tom Blach

…
Interestingly many very good restaurants in Italy offer excellent non Italian wine. If you are not Italian it is the height of bad form to order them.

I had never considered this aspect, but had a great dinner at Cibreo in Florence with my wife and friend. We ordered 1990 Drouhin Griotte Chambertin and 1988 Krug because they were there and priced really well. We shared with the staff and our waiter just started bringing us an extra dish of his choosing with each course because he thought we should try it out too. If it was bad form, they were all big enough to overlook my oversight and serve me as they would a countryman (I look Italian and am of Italian heritage, but don’t speak Italian).

Cheers,
fred

[Gabriel_Herrmann]

@Tom Blach

@Gabriel Herrmann

@Tom Blach

To posit that bordeaux wines don’t go with Italian food is merely to state the obvious, as it it is to say that piedmontese wines don’t go with tuscan dishes.

with all due respect, this is a ridiculous statement – one that is akin to saying that meat doesn’t go with sauce. are there some italian dishes that are not well paired with bordeaux wines? I should think almost certainly so. but the notion that no italian dish could ever “go” with bordeaux is, frankly, absurd.

I don’t think you have quite understood. Never mind.

well, at least you’ve taken the time to clarify your statement. so, thanks for that. or something.

[Gabriel_Herrmann]

@jcoley3

I think Philip is kind of right that Marea’s menu isn’t where I would think classified Medoc. Based on the menu, it really is a place where Italian wines and a little bit of Burgundy will shine - I say that based on dining with an old school NY importer who set up our night featuring his wines from Italy and Burgundy…

as a general proposition, of course you are right. but that only highlights the problem with virtually all generalities. although I’ve eaten at marea several times, and I don’t think I’ve ever actually ordered bordeaux there, I would happily drink any number of medoc wines with, for example, their sirloin (or the duck, for that matter). to be sure, we are all entitled to our respective opinions, but I tend to think I would prefer not to dine with anyone who would see fit to brand me a “jerk” for doing so. for my part, I don’t see much point in making character judgments about the fellow at the next table based simply on whether I agree with his food-and-wine pairings. that’s why I can’t agree with Philip’s statement, regardless of how I might feel about pairing bordeaux with the cuisine at marea.

[mark_rudner]

this thread makes me want fusilli with bone marrow and octopus

[Nick_Gangas]

@mark rudner

this thread makes me want fusilli with bone marrow and octopus

With SQN ?

[mark_rudner]

@Nick Gangas

@mark rudner

this thread makes me want fusilli with bone marrow and octopus

With SQN ?

Abso f’ing lutely

[Mike_Cohen]

@Guillaume Deschamps

@Tom Blach

I don’t much enjoy French wines in any other context, Brian.

Agreed. Almost 100% of my cellar is French. Luckily there’s no other country producing food worth eating, so I’m all good.

Perfect!

[David_Glasser]

@Philip Ente

Interesting- Was at Marea recently and saw bottles of Leoville Las Cases and Bechyville going by and I remarked to my friend, Wilfred van Gorp- what kind of jerk drinks Medocs with Italian food?

The same kind of jerk that put them on the wine list in the first place?

Did you check out what they ordered for dinner before passing judgment on their wine/food pairing acumen? The bistecca looks like a good match for Bordeaux.

I can think of a reason or two to call JK a jerk, and I can think of plenty of poor wine/food pairings, but I can’t think of a reason why poor wine/food pairing choices would make me consider someone a jerk.

[Fred_C]

@Tom Blach

To posit that bordeaux wines don’t go with Italian food is merely to state the obvious, as it it is to say that piedmontese wines don’t go with tuscan dishes.

These days, with chefs combining cuisines and crossing boundaries (eg. Asian and French augmented by flares of Spanish or South American) such rigid and simple formulas for wine pairing seem a bit out of place and impractical.

[Ed_Murray]

@Guillaume Deschamps

@Tom Blach

I don’t much enjoy French wines in any other context, Brian.

Agreed. Almost 100% of my cellar is French. Luckily there’s no other country producing food worth eating, so I’m all good.

LOL! Guillaume FTW!