RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

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Don Cornwell
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8751 Post by Don Cornwell » June 22nd, 2020, 7:43 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 2:00 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 12:34 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 8:35 am


SDNY, which is just a short car ride downtown, seems ideal. Oh, wait,.....
I think it might be hard to get their attention this week.
This was a civil action. I have absolutely no doubt Koch will go after them irrespective of what week it is. Not sure what he can do about it though; it obviously depends on the wording of the agreement, but I have a feeling it will have serious penalties. I hope so.
The Koch v. Royal Wine Merchants lawsuit was filed in the Southern District of Florida, I believe in Miami.

I too hope that Mr. Koch will do something about this and that the Court will shut down Royal Wine Merchants once and for all. However, as you may remember, Koch basically walked away from his litigation against Acker and Rudy a few years ago.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8752 Post by LawrenceM » June 23rd, 2020, 5:40 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 7:43 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 2:00 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 12:34 pm


I think it might be hard to get their attention this week.
This was a civil action. I have absolutely no doubt Koch will go after them irrespective of what week it is. Not sure what he can do about it though; it obviously depends on the wording of the agreement, but I have a feeling it will have serious penalties. I hope so.
The Koch v. Royal Wine Merchants lawsuit was filed in the Southern District of Florida, I believe in Miami.

I too hope that Mr. Koch will do something about this and that the Court will shut down Royal Wine Merchants once and for all. However, as you may remember, Koch basically walked away from his litigation against Acker and Rudy a few years ago.
If Mr. Koch decides that he does not wish to expend personal energies in perusing this cause of action, perhaps he should assign that cause of action to Mr. Cornwell. I would certainly like to see that!
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8753 Post by Jürgen Steinke » June 23rd, 2020, 5:48 am

I agree – Don is a lawyer, right? If so I can´t think of a better one in this case. Don Cornwell ist the perfect man.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8754 Post by Dennis Borczon » June 23rd, 2020, 6:15 am

Obviously the penalties for violating the court injunction must not be that severe. Or else the responsible parties must feel that they have a way out. Or maybe crime is just too addictive to stop. Perhaps they should visit Mr Fox of PC fame. Seems like the only guys who actually went to jail over this fraud were Rudy and John Fox.

So maybe crime does pay?

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8755 Post by John Danza » June 23rd, 2020, 8:59 am

Dennis Borczon wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 6:15 am
Obviously the penalties for violating the court injunction must not be that severe. Or else the responsible parties must feel that they have a way out. Or maybe crime is just too addictive to stop. Perhaps they should visit Mr Fox of PC fame. Seems like the only guys who actually went to jail over this fraud were Rudy and John Fox.

So maybe crime does pay?
I suspect they just figure that no one will notice after all this time. It seems silly to think no one is looking anymore. I guess they don't know Don and Maureen!

Don, does it need to be Koch that engages the court again? I would think that once a court has issued a ruling, anyone can bring it to the court's attention that the mandate is being ignored. It's not like the mandate was only effective for Bill Koch.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8756 Post by John Morris » June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am

John Danza wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:59 am
Dennis Borczon wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 6:15 am
Obviously the penalties for violating the court injunction must not be that severe. Or else the responsible parties must feel that they have a way out. Or maybe crime is just too addictive to stop. Perhaps they should visit Mr Fox of PC fame. Seems like the only guys who actually went to jail over this fraud were Rudy and John Fox.

So maybe crime does pay?
I suspect they just figure that no one will notice after all this time. It seems silly to think no one is looking anymore. I guess they don't know Don and Maureen!

Don, does it need to be Koch that engages the court again? I would think that once a court has issued a ruling, anyone can bring it to the court's attention that the mandate is being ignored. It's not like the mandate was only effective for Bill Koch.

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Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8757 Post by Don Cornwell » June 23rd, 2020, 9:54 am

John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am
Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
Yes, that would be my take too. I think Mr. Koch would have to be the person to enforce the injunction. What I find to be an interesting question is what is the penalty for willfully violating a permanent injunction of this type? An Order to shut down the business completely?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8758 Post by John Morris » June 23rd, 2020, 10:49 am

That seems unlikely as a matter of equity. But a contempt hearing and a fine would not be surprising if Koch gets involved.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8759 Post by Troy Stark » June 23rd, 2020, 12:05 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:49 am
That seems unlikely as a matter of equity. But a contempt hearing and a fine would not be surprising if Koch gets involved.
Contempt is a possibility. Another might be arguing there's been a breach of contract entitling the aggrieved party to damages. A third might be that the entire settlement agreement should be voided and litigation resumed.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8760 Post by Glenn Gallup » June 24th, 2020, 5:44 pm

One more time after a long time.
“First you need honest people”
Dad was wrong once in a great while but he hit the nail on the head with that one.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8761 Post by Don Cornwell » June 24th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Glenn Gallup wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 5:44 pm
One more time after a long time.
“First you need honest people”
Dad was wrong once in a great while but he hit the nail on the head with that one.
Hi Glenn! Good to hear from you again. Your sage wisdom is always welcome.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8762 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 24th, 2020, 6:04 pm

Don Cornwell wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:54 am
John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am
Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
Yes, that would be my take too. I think Mr. Koch would have to be the person to enforce the injunction. What I find to be an interesting question is what is the penalty for willfully violating a permanent injunction of this type? An Order to shut down the business completely?
Wouldn’t any half decent lawyer spelled out in the contract the penalties if Royal breached it?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8763 Post by Don Cornwell » June 24th, 2020, 6:10 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 6:04 pm
Don Cornwell wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:54 am
John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am
Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
Yes, that would be my take too. I think Mr. Koch would have to be the person to enforce the injunction. What I find to be an interesting question is what is the penalty for willfully violating a permanent injunction of this type? An Order to shut down the business completely?
Wouldn’t any half decent lawyer spelled out in the contract the penalties if Royal breached it?
Mark:

Actually, I don't think so. It would be very difficult to spell out all of the different ways in which the injunction might be violated and spell out appropriate penalties for all of the different possibilities. Moreover, Judges usually don't like it when the parties try to dictate to the Court what the penalty will be for violating a Court's order.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8764 Post by Glenn Gallup » June 24th, 2020, 7:18 pm

If you think that was sage wisdom you should hear me when I’ve been cleaning out my cellar.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8765 Post by John Morris » June 25th, 2020, 7:25 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 6:10 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 6:04 pm
Wouldn’t any half decent lawyer spelled out in the contract the penalties if Royal breached it?
Mark:

Actually, I don't think so. It would be very difficult to spell out all of the different ways in which the injunction might be violated and spell out appropriate penalties for all of the different possibilities. Moreover, Judges usually don't like it when the parties try to dictate to the Court what the penalty will be for violating a Court's order.
Mark: Don is right. It's one thing to spell out in a settlement agreement that, in the event of a breach, the aggrieved party can, say, sue for an injunction or damages, or that any releases given in the agreement are null and void. Some agreements provide for "liquidated damages" so there's no argument about the amount; if you do this, you will have to pay $X. But those are all benefits that accrue to the non-breaching party. If Royal was challenged on the basis that it violated a court order, that's a matter of contempt, and it's the court's prerogative to decide the penalty.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8766 Post by Jan-Willem van der Hek » July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am

Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8767 Post by Victor Hong » July 1st, 2020, 4:16 am

Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8768 Post by Jan-Willem van der Hek » July 1st, 2020, 5:35 am

Victor Hong wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 4:16 am
Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8769 Post by John Danza » July 1st, 2020, 6:38 am

Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
Wow, lot after lot of pristine labels and wrinkled capsules. I love that some of the capsules are even cut off at the top to gain access to the cork. They're not trying very hard.

The 1942 La Tache is sort of funny. First, there's a comment taken from Serene Sutcliff for the 1943 vintage. But this is a 1942! Then you've got the comment "believed late release". Wouldn't you expect the auction house to require proof from the seller, such as a receipt of the ex-domaine purchase or a statement from the domaine?

I guess I'll be unsubscribing to emails from Sotheby's.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8770 Post by Jan-Willem van der Hek » July 1st, 2020, 7:18 am

John Danza wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 6:38 am
Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
Wow, lot after lot of pristine labels and wrinkled capsules. I love that some of the capsules are even cut off at the top to gain access to the cork. They're not trying very hard.

The 1942 La Tache is sort of funny. First, there's a comment taken from Serene Sutcliff for the 1943 vintage. But this is a 1942! Then you've got the comment "believed late release". Wouldn't you expect the auction house to require proof from the seller, such as a receipt of the ex-domaine purchase or a statement from the domaine?

I guess I'll be unsubscribing to emails from Sotheby's.
Agree! They claim it's all from one cellar and the American collector has a personal relationship with many of the wine producers themselves. If these bottles are real there there should indeed be a statement / tag of proof. Conceirning the 1942 LT, since there's a vineyard designated capsule which normally would appear after '78 they assume it's a late domaine release.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8771 Post by Sean S y d n e y » July 1st, 2020, 7:26 am

Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:18 am

Agree! They claim it's all from one cellar and the American collector has a personal relationship with many of the wine producers themselves. If these bottles are real there there should indeed be a statement / tag of proof. Conceirning the 1942 LT, since there's a vineyard designated capsule which normally would appear after '78 they assume it's a late domaine release.
I am absolutely no expert on these wines and what little I know is mostly gleaned from Don's work, but this immediately caught my eye - as well as the wax coverings on page 8 on almost all of the DRC wines. Did they use wax on larger format bottlings?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8772 Post by RichardFlack » July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am

Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why wasn’t it published”?
Last edited by RichardFlack on July 1st, 2020, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8773 Post by Don Cornwell » July 1st, 2020, 12:07 pm

RichardFlack wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am
Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why want it published”?
I will take a look, but Jamie Ritchie at Sotheby's is normally exceptionally careful.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8774 Post by Andrew Hamilton » July 1st, 2020, 6:15 pm

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:26 am
I am absolutely no expert on these wines and what little I know is mostly gleaned from Don's work, but this immediately caught my eye - as well as the wax coverings on page 8 on almost all of the DRC wines. Did they use wax on larger format bottlings?
Yea, the wax being removed from the top of the bottles looks quite suspect imho. If I were in the position of needing to remove wax to confirm the cork was correct for any of those bottles I suspect I'd work up from the neck instead of going top down.

Image
That sounds about right.
Probably for the best.
They had a good run.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8775 Post by Andrew Hamilton » July 1st, 2020, 9:59 pm

Just had a look at some DRC cork pics (and compared it to the one pic I've taken close enough to see details clearly) and it appears that DRC corks list the vintage on the side of the cork near the base. Here's an example from their 2011's.

Image

I'm now downright baffled as to why the wax on top of those bottles in my previous post has been removed.
That sounds about right.
Probably for the best.
They had a good run.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8776 Post by Arvid Rosengren » July 2nd, 2020, 9:02 am

Andrew Hamilton wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 9:59 pm
Just had a look at some DRC cork pics (and compared it to the one pic I've taken close enough to see details clearly) and it appears that DRC corks list the vintage on the side of the cork near the base. Here's an example from their 2011's.

Image

I'm now downright baffled as to why the wax on top of those bottles in my previous post has been removed.
It's entirely possible that it's just broken off and it's not a conscious effort. Happens a lot in transport or just moving things around the cellar. Maybe seepage (also not uncommon with "overfilling" Domaines) related?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8777 Post by Larry Stein » July 2nd, 2020, 9:08 am

I just checked out some of that catalog. If I had known then (part 355)...I paid $24/btl on release for '80 Henri Jayer Echezeaux. Hell, I could pay off the rest of my mortgage if I still had a case (I have none left).

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8778 Post by Larry Stein » July 2nd, 2020, 12:15 pm

I was told I probably paid $24 for '80 Cros Parantoux and that my cost for Echezeaux would've been ~$35. But still...

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8779 Post by ERPark » July 2nd, 2020, 2:53 pm

Larry Stein wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:15 pm
I was told I probably paid $24 for '80 Cros Parantoux and that my cost for Echezeaux would've been ~$35. But still...
Ya coulda been rich, but ya p!$$€d it all away instead!

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8780 Post by John Ammons » July 2nd, 2020, 11:04 pm

ERPark wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 2:53 pm
Larry Stein wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:15 pm
I was told I probably paid $24 for '80 Cros Parantoux and that my cost for Echezeaux would've been ~$35. But still...
Ya coulda been rich, but ya p!$$€d it all away instead!

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8781 Post by Larry Stein » July 3rd, 2020, 6:33 am

FWIW, those wines were sold to me by a Deadhead. He and I are still close friends.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8782 Post by Don Cornwell » July 4th, 2020, 2:24 am

RichardFlack wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am
Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why wasn’t it published”?
REVISED/UPDATED:
The biggest problems with the items in the Sotheby's catalog are: (1) the photography in the catalog available in PDF format is awful. On many bottles the resolution is so bad you can't even read details on the labels. That makes any assessment of the authenticity of the bottle absolutely impossible. I have been in contact with Sotheby's who explain that while their physical catalogs have high resolution images, to accommodate bandwith isssues with smart phones they are no longer putting high resolution photographs in their PDF catalogs available on line. Personally, I think that is a a HUGE mistake. Nobody in their right mind is going to drop several thousand dollars on a bottle based on a very low resolution image viewed on their smart phone; and (2) the photographer and/or the idiot who put the catalog together really shifted the color balance substantially and messed up the colors throughout the catalog (e.g. DRC and Roumier have never had brown bottles). The photos are so bad in the catalog and the color is so distorted (e.g. every green AOC line on the DRC bottles is so smeared with green ink that it automatically looks like a counterfeit.) There is simply no way to assess the authenticity of many of the bottles in this Sotheby's auction based on anything you can see in the PDF catalog. However, as I have said before, I have a great deal of trust in Jamie Ritchie and the Sotheby's authentication process.

The 1942 La Tache that Bill Nanson and others have questioned appears to come from the 1988 re-release by Leroy. Sotheby's sent me a high resolution image and they match what I have for the European version of the 1988 re-release.

Sotheby's said that, in their experience, most of the DRC Jeros and Methuselahs, which do have wax capsules, suffer from being chipped and cracked in the late 1990s vintages, like the ones shown in the catalog. If you look at the other big glass bottles in the catalog, most have intact wax capsules.

With respect to the Clark Riedel import/retail stickers, I am informed by Sotheby's that the consignor was one of a group of several local wine collectors who used Clark Riedel, an importer and retailer located in Del Mar California (very close to San Diego) to import wines for them, including wines that the consignor bought directly from the Domaines.

MORE INFORMATION (JULY 5, 2020):

Sotheby's was kind enough to send me the high resolution proof of the catalog for me to review. I did that. The photos were incredibly sharp and perfect for my purposes. I found no issues with authenticity as to any of the DRC items in the catalog. Yes, there are 6 liters of 1998 and 1999 DRC with chipped wax capsules but I found the explanation reasonable under the circumstances. The 1942 DRC La Tache matched my photo exemplars from the 1988 re-release. The Roumier, Rousseau and Jayer wines all looked as expected (except for the 1978 Swiss-bottled Chambolle Amoureuses that I'm completely unfamiliar with.)

The only lots that I had questions about were white burgundies from the middle to the end of the catalog. Initially, I was somewhat troubled by the 6 liter bottle of 1989 Ramonet Montrachet (Lot 8097). The 6 liter bottle is projected to sell for more than $40,000 US dollars. However, after communicating with Sotheby's wine director Jamie Ritchie, it seems appropriate to defer to their judgment that the wine is appropriate for sale at auction.
1989 Ramonet Montracht 6 Liter_(Half size).png
Lot 8097 - Click on this photo to to enlarge it

The notable discrepancy here is that the label on the 6 liter bottle is a magnum label and someone has crudely handwritten in black ink "600" over the 150 cl on the printed label. Sotheby's believes that this was done by Ramonet because very few 6 liters were produced and that it was common practice at the time to overwrite the quantity rather than print larger labels with the appropriate quantity. My colleague Geoff Troy reported overnight that he has seen 6 liters and 9 liters from Ramonet from other vintages. Sotheby's also pointed out that the bronze colored design on the neck labels on the Don Stott bottles was actually a result of the lighting and photography used for the photographs of the Don Stott collection rather than the actual silver color which appeared there and which appears on the 6 liter bottle. So, under the circumstances, while it is appropriate to note the magnum label and the handwritten modification, I think it is appropriate here to defer to Sotheby's usual excellent judgment on authenticity.

Lot 8797 (2000 Coche Corton). The photo in the catalog shows two bottles of 2000 Coche-Dury Corton Charlemagne sitting side by side but they have completely different main labels and neck labels.
2000 Coche Corton_Page_1_Image_0001.png
Lot 8797 - Click on this photo to enlarge it

The text on the labels is different and the numerals and the colors on the design on the neck label are notably different. As I stated previously, the bottle on the left in the photo in the catalog matches the US version sold by Kermit Lynch. It contains some additional text that wasn't on the label on the right and the alcohol percentage and liquid quantity are displayed differently. Sotheby's explains that the bottle on the right is believed to be the version sold in Europe, and states that other bottles of the 2000 Coche Corton originating from Europe and offered and sold by Sotheby's also did not include bottle numbers for the 2000 vintage. While the differing labels are notable, again it appears appropriate to defer to Sotheby's judgment call on this one.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8783 Post by Arvid Rosengren » July 6th, 2020, 6:20 pm

I've seen that Swiss label of Roumier (only on the 1978 Amoureuses) at a dinner with Christophe earlier this year. It was good, better better than the "normale" reference bottle in attendance.

Interesting to note that while I didn't follow all the action, the 1942 LT's went for an, in relation to other "legendaries", reasonable price! It's possible the discussion here and elsewhere as well as the the failure to provide high-res images on Sotheby's parttook the edge off the interest... lesson learned?

Brings to question also how it's possible that many major auction houses don't have photos of every lot, where minor auctions will have front/back/360-degree movable shots of every bottle. Lazy.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8784 Post by John Danza » July 7th, 2020, 6:52 am

Arvid Rosengren wrote:
July 6th, 2020, 6:20 pm
Brings to question also how it's possible that many major auction houses don't have photos of every lot, where minor auctions will have front/back/360-degree movable shots of every bottle. Lazy.
Great point. I want to give kudos in this regard to Christie's. I'm looking at a couple of lots in their upcoming online auction, one of which didn't have a photo. I emailed them asking about getting one along with asking some questions about the lot. They gave me good answers, and a photo of one of the lots was put up on the website.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8785 Post by billnanson » July 8th, 2020, 4:49 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 2:24 am
The 1942 La Tache that Bill Nanson and others have questioned...
I actually said that, given how 'new' the labels looked, I'd want more info on the lots before bidding. I also have a lot of trust in Sotheby's work...
I understand their problem with the picture quality in the pdf - a website is much better for that - the pdf was already over 60mb with just the low-res images. Provided they are available to answer any relevant questions and provide answers and higher-res photos, all good...
Burgundy Report - online since 2002...

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8786 Post by brigcampbell » July 8th, 2020, 7:31 am

billnanson wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 4:49 am
Don Cornwell wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 2:24 am
The 1942 La Tache that Bill Nanson and others have questioned...
I actually said that, given how 'new' the labels looked, I'd want more info on the lots before bidding. I also have a lot of trust in Sotheby's work...
I understand their problem with the picture quality in the pdf - a website is much better for that - the pdf was already over 60mb with just the low-res images. Provided they are available to answer any relevant questions and provide answers and higher-res photos, all good...
they can have a link in the pdf, using the low res picture if they choose, that you click to bring up a hi-res image. not rocket science here.

Much like Don does here in this thread.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8787 Post by billnanson » July 8th, 2020, 7:34 am

brigcampbell wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 7:31 am
billnanson wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 4:49 am
Don Cornwell wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 2:24 am
The 1942 La Tache that Bill Nanson and others have questioned...
I actually said that, given how 'new' the labels looked, I'd want more info on the lots before bidding. I also have a lot of trust in Sotheby's work...
I understand their problem with the picture quality in the pdf - a website is much better for that - the pdf was already over 60mb with just the low-res images. Provided they are available to answer any relevant questions and provide answers and higher-res photos, all good...
they can have a link in the pdf,
... to the image(s) on their website - which is what I meant.
Burgundy Report - online since 2002...

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8788 Post by ChrisStags » July 21st, 2020, 8:21 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 2:24 am
RichardFlack wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am
Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why wasn’t it published”?
REVISED/UPDATED:
The biggest problems with the items in the Sotheby's catalog are: (1) the photography in the catalog available in PDF format is awful. On many bottles the resolution is so bad you can't even read details on the labels. That makes any assessment of the authenticity of the bottle absolutely impossible. I have been in contact with Sotheby's who explain that while their physical catalogs have high resolution images, to accommodate bandwith isssues with smart phones they are no longer putting high resolution photographs in their PDF catalogs available on line. Personally, I think that is a a HUGE mistake. Nobody in their right mind is going to drop several thousand dollars on a bottle based on a very low resolution image viewed on their smart phone; and (2) the photographer and/or the idiot who put the catalog together really shifted the color balance substantially and messed up the colors throughout the catalog (e.g. DRC and Roumier have never had brown bottles). The photos are so bad in the catalog and the color is so distorted (e.g. every green AOC line on the DRC bottles is so smeared with green ink that it automatically looks like a counterfeit.) There is simply no way to assess the authenticity of many of the bottles in this Sotheby's auction based on anything you can see in the PDF catalog. However, as I have said before, I have a great deal of trust in Jamie Ritchie and the Sotheby's authentication process.

The 1942 La Tache that Bill Nanson and others have questioned appears to come from the 1988 re-release by Leroy. Sotheby's sent me a high resolution image and they match what I have for the European version of the 1988 re-release.

Sotheby's said that, in their experience, most of the DRC Jeros and Methuselahs, which do have wax capsules, suffer from being chipped and cracked in the late 1990s vintages, like the ones shown in the catalog. If you look at the other big glass bottles in the catalog, most have intact wax capsules.

With respect to the Clark Riedel import/retail stickers, I am informed by Sotheby's that the consignor was one of a group of several local wine collectors who used Clark Riedel, an importer and retailer located in Del Mar California (very close to San Diego) to import wines for them, including wines that the consignor bought directly from the Domaines.

MORE INFORMATION (JULY 5, 2020):

Sotheby's was kind enough to send me the high resolution proof of the catalog for me to review. I did that. The photos were incredibly sharp and perfect for my purposes. I found no issues with authenticity as to any of the DRC items in the catalog. Yes, there are 6 liters of 1998 and 1999 DRC with chipped wax capsules but I found the explanation reasonable under the circumstances. The 1942 DRC La Tache matched my photo exemplars from the 1988 re-release. The Roumier, Rousseau and Jayer wines all looked as expected (except for the 1978 Swiss-bottled Chambolle Amoureuses that I'm completely unfamiliar with.)

The only lots that I had questions about were white burgundies from the middle to the end of the catalog. Initially, I was somewhat troubled by the 6 liter bottle of 1989 Ramonet Montrachet (Lot 8097). The 6 liter bottle is projected to sell for more than $40,000 US dollars. However, after communicating with Sotheby's wine director Jamie Ritchie, it seems appropriate to defer to their judgment that the wine is appropriate for sale at auction.

1989 Ramonet Montracht 6 Liter_(Half size).png
Lot 8097 - Click on this photo to to enlarge it

The notable discrepancy here is that the label on the 6 liter bottle is a magnum label and someone has crudely handwritten in black ink "600" over the 150 cl on the printed label. Sotheby's believes that this was done by Ramonet because very few 6 liters were produced and that it was common practice at the time to overwrite the quantity rather than print larger labels with the appropriate quantity. My colleague Geoff Troy reported overnight that he has seen 6 liters and 9 liters from Ramonet from other vintages. Sotheby's also pointed out that the bronze colored design on the neck labels on the Don Stott bottles was actually a result of the lighting and photography used for the photographs of the Don Stott collection rather than the actual silver color which appeared there and which appears on the 6 liter bottle. So, under the circumstances, while it is appropriate to note the magnum label and the handwritten modification, I think it is appropriate here to defer to Sotheby's usual excellent judgment on authenticity.

Lot 8797 (2000 Coche Corton). The photo in the catalog shows two bottles of 2000 Coche-Dury Corton Charlemagne sitting side by side but they have completely different main labels and neck labels.
2000 Coche Corton_Page_1_Image_0001.png
Lot 8797 - Click on this photo to enlarge it

The text on the labels is different and the numerals and the colors on the design on the neck label are notably different. As I stated previously, the bottle on the left in the photo in the catalog matches the US version sold by Kermit Lynch. It contains some additional text that wasn't on the label on the right and the alcohol percentage and liquid quantity are displayed differently. Sotheby's explains that the bottle on the right is believed to be the version sold in Europe, and states that other bottles of the 2000 Coche Corton originating from Europe and offered and sold by Sotheby's also did not include bottle numbers for the 2000 vintage. While the differing labels are notable, again it appears appropriate to defer to Sotheby's judgment call on this one.
Can anyone shed some light on the 1976 Domaine Grivelet cuvée princess noura large formats in the Christie’s E Auction. Were they manipulated or counter fitted, and if so how can they sell them?

Lot 309 - 1976 Chambertin “cuvée noura” methuselah (think they should have labeled it “Longe Prospicio” based upon picture)
Lot 310 - 1976 CDB “cuvée noura” Salmanazar
Stagnaro

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8789 Post by ChrisStags » July 21st, 2020, 10:20 am

Update: was sent this article when I emailed Christie’s. They seem to think the wine should be good based upon this article. Hmm...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... e34533c19/
Stagnaro

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8790 Post by Don Cornwell » July 21st, 2020, 10:39 am

ChrisStags wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 8:21 am
Can anyone shed some light on the 1976 Domaine Grivelet cuvée princess noura large formats in the Christie’s E Auction. Were they manipulated or counter fitted, and if so how can they sell them?

Lot 309 - 1976 Chambertin “cuvée noura” methuselah (think they should have labeled it “Longe Prospicio” based upon picture)
Lot 310 - 1976 CDB “cuvée noura” Salmanazar
Chris:

The short answer is that yes, 1976 Grivelet Chambertin and Chambertin Clos de Beze wines, including those two wines in large formats, were counterfeited by Bernard Grivelet. He plead guilty and was convicted in France in 1979. The bottles you refer to in the Christie's auction, Lots 309 and 310, are US import bottles according to the photographs. Castleton Imports of Jericho NY brought in 30,000 bottles of the counterfeit Grivelet burgundies into the US which were distributed to 40 to 50 retailers in New York City and Long Island. Castleton Imports was charged by the Department of Justice with knowing and willful participation in the labeling fraud, including selling $4 a bottle rhone wines as Chambertin Clos de Beze, Chambolle Musigny and Morey St. Denis. https://www.nytimes.com/1979/05/02/arch ... andal.html In December of 1982 the firm plead guilty. https://www.nytimes.com/1983/01/02/styl ... se-labels. As part of the plea agreement, the firm and its owner were forced to permanently exit the wine business. According to the press reports, all 70,000 bottles of Grivelet's fakes were sent to and sold in the US market.

According to the Dallas Magazine article referred to in my 2014 post in this thread https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/ ... f-the-vine, in addition to the 30,000 bottles imported in New York, an additional 40,000 counterfeit bottles were sold in the rest of the US. According to the articles describing the fraud, the fake burgundies made from rhone were variously labeled as being from Chambolle Musigny, Morey St. Denis and Chambertin. Some of the articles referred to the counterfeit Grivelet burgundies being sold in large format bottles, including magnums and jeroboams. http://www.foodreference.com/html/art-wine-frauds.html

So, my operative presumption would be that the two large format 1976 Grivelet burgundies are counterfeit. I have never understood why, but several auction houses, including Christie's, Sotheby's and even HDH (with 2007 apparently being the last HDH sale), continued to sell the 1976 Grivelet grand cru burgundies in large formats for many years. Several articles also refer to Grivelet having been involved in "another wine scandal" in the late 1950s which is also believed to have involved counterfeit wines.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8791 Post by ChrisStags » July 22nd, 2020, 9:22 am

Thanks for the info.

Update: Christie’s took down both lots in question this morning.
Stagnaro

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8792 Post by Jerry Hey » July 22nd, 2020, 11:59 am

Another win for Don Cornwell!!

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8793 Post by HoosJustinG » July 22nd, 2020, 1:05 pm

I wish I knew as much about anything as Don knows about counterfeit wines.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8794 Post by John Danza » July 23rd, 2020, 7:24 am

ChrisStags wrote:
July 21st, 2020, 10:20 am
Update: was sent this article when I emailed Christie’s. They seem to think the wine should be good based upon this article. Hmm...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... e34533c19/
Funny that Christie's was relying on an article from 41 years ago, considering everything that's been learned about counterfeit wine since then. Especially these particular counterfeits!
John Danza

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8795 Post by J. Cohen » July 23rd, 2020, 7:56 am

Win for the good guys! Great work gents.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8796 Post by Mel Hill » August 4th, 2020, 4:25 pm

FYI, yet another show to feature RK. ABC is producing a prime-time show called “The Con” not sure when it will air but they have started working on the Rudy story.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8797 Post by Josh Grossman » August 19th, 2020, 4:12 pm

Rudy is due to get out of prison soon this year. It will be interesting to see if he cashes in on his infamy. I could see him giving Dave Phinney a run for his money on selling blended wines. Name the company Infamy or "Dr. Conti". It would be some marketing to say this wine sold at auction as a... for x amount, it's not that--but you can have the same wine that tricked Bill Koch for $54.99. I'm sure they would become collector items and in a few years Acker would have them at auction...

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8798 Post by Alex Valdes » August 19th, 2020, 4:27 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:12 pm
Rudy is due to get out of prison soon this year. It will be interesting to see if he cashes in on his infamy. I could see him giving Dave Phinney a run for his money on selling blended wines. Name the company Infamy or "Dr. Conti". It would be some marketing to say this wine sold at auction as a... for x amount, it's not that--but you can have the same wine that tricked Bill Koch for $54.99. I'm sure they would become collector items and in a few years Acker would have them at auction...
This is a really interesting idea. As long as 100% of the proceeds go to repaying all those injured, this would be a great wine geek gag gift.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8799 Post by John Morris » August 19th, 2020, 4:31 pm

Josh Grossman wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 4:12 pm
Rudy is due to get out of prison soon this year. It will be interesting to see if he cashes in on his infamy. I could see him giving Dave Phinney a run for his money on selling blended wines. Name the company Infamy or "Dr. Conti". It would be some marketing to say this wine sold at auction as a... for x amount, it's not that--but you can have the same wine that tricked Bill Koch for $54.99. I'm sure they would become collector items and in a few years Acker would have them at auction...
He’ll be deported on release. There was already on old deportation order for him when he was arrested for faking wines. That will likely make it harder to cash in.
"But they told me there would be a hand basket."

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8800 Post by Marcu$ Stanley » August 19th, 2020, 4:36 pm

Some publicity-hungry producer should give him a run doing their blends, lol. He's got the experience!

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