How long do you like to cellar you Chateauneuf-du-Pape blancs?
I’m not necessarily referencing the top end wines like Beaucastel VV or anything like that, more mid-priced offerings like Charbonniere, Beauchene, Beaurenard, etc. When do you consider your mid-range white CDP to be at peak? I don’t have a ton of experience with CDP blanc, and I’m sure I drink mine too young. WS’s drinking windows seem unreasonably short, not only for these but everything, so can’t go by those.
3-5 years. After that too much of a crap shoot. Beaucastel VV longer, good young, good after 10-12 years, awful in the in-between years, totally shuts down and hibernates.
Matt, I can’t add much to this discussion as I haven’t had many experiences with white CdP, but I too am quite interested in other people’s responses. I’ve only ever had a few of them, 05 Vieux Telegraphe La Crau and 03 Beaucastel Roussanne VV come to mind, and they were both excellent. I thought the Telegraphe was drinking very well at 5 years of age and probably would hold but wouldn’t improve much. As for the Beaucastel, it was drinking very well too and at 8 years of age I thought it could easily continue to improve and develop further. I remember wanting to buy some of the Beaucastel after I tasted it but was shocked by the price, although in the context of other top wines, it may be quite reasonably priced. Looking back at my notes I see Ive also tasted the 09 Vieux Lazaret which I wasn’t that impressed with. Hopefully others with more experience can chime in here.
Matt, this is a very controversial issue for some. I have been a big fan of white CdP since the late 70s and early 80s and my experience says that each vinatge and each producer makes each and every bottling an individual story. I usually try a bottle quite early on to get a data point and assess the body, fruit and acidity. I have finally come to drinking most of them more on the younger side…though every once in a while a more serious level wine like the Beaucastel VV can really become something stunning after its “infamous” doemant period. But I say drink in the first 3-5 for the wines you seem to enjoy.
Because they are hard to find and frequently overpriced in the US, I don’t have extensive experience with any one producer. But I have been drinking them since the late 80s. The generalization I will give is old news, so hardly my discovery, but it is quite generally held about well-made versions of the wine. They drink well for 3-5 years, sometimes picking up some weight during that window. They then go into an oxidized period that makes people inexperienced with them think of them as over the hill. With great regularity, they come out of that period (depending on the producer) around age 10 and are then quite wonderful for a few years. They have the same profile (though not nearly the same longevity) as white wines from the Northern Rhone.
Given the push to get wines that are more perfumed and the higher use of new oak in recent years, I don’t know if this profile will have changed. Still, white CdP, as opposed to white Rhones from the surround areas, have stuck with the same varieties, not added large chunks of Viognier, and not pushed ripeness to insane ends, so they should still act like the older versions.
That matches my experience with cuvées that are either all (Beaucastel V.V., St.-Benoît V.V.) or a high percentage (Beaucastel Classique, Vatican Sixtine, Font de Michelle Etienne Gonnet, Fortia) Roussanne. Not so much for cuvées that are mostly Clairette, Bourboulenc, or Grenache Blanc.
They have stuck with the same varieties - Grenache Blanc, Roussanne, Clairette, Bourboulenc, Picpoul, Picardin - because the AOC regulations haven’t changed. Viognier is not authorized.
They have stuck with the same varieties - Grenache Blanc, Roussanne, Clairette, Bourboulenc, Picpoul, Picardin - because the AOC regulations haven’t changed. Viognier is not authorized.[/quote]
Yes, of course. But there are voices to change the rules to allow Viognier. To the extent that they have not been successful-yet-that represents a choice and not simply following the rules. I’m not a gigantic fan of AOC rules and there are numbers of ways to evade them (one could make a Viognier on CdP terroir and label it VdP), but this is a case where the rule has a beneficial result.
I always wondered what the fuss (small as it may be) was all about. To me they have been either flawed (oxidized), or just plain inoccuous. And speaking of expensive, in many cases the white is more than the red from the same producer. I just figured that many CdP producers make white either because they have white grapes on their property, or they want something to drink with fish. To be honest, I’ll taste it if someone else is pouring, but I would never buy another bottle. If I had to drink a Rhone White, I would much rather have one from the North.
They make miniscule amounts of whites and many make no white at all. But no one makes it just because they have the grapes. They can always replant and they can in fact use the white grapes in the red wine (Beaucastel and La Nerthe at least use all 13 varieties in their red wine). Those who make it make it because they think they make a good wine with it (although I have always wondered about Pegau).
Parker most obviously. He does speak for some of the winemakers as well. I can’t quote you chapter and verse here. And much of what I have heard is secondhand, but some winemakers think the addition of Viognier would make their wines more attractive both inherently and in the marketplace.
Jonathan’s advice is spot on, although I would pull it in a couple years. I love the wines in their first year, maybe two, and then after 6-7 years. The '03s are beautifully fresh right now. Always a tough call though as a number of the wines (vieux telegraph, donjon, clos des pape) can still show well at age 3 or 4, while others start to get heavy after 12 to 18 months. I think the vast majority of them show the best right on release though.
I know you and Jeb are joking, but it’s worth remembering that Parker is influential in CdP, not a pariah. First of all, although he likes modern, not to say spoofy, versions, he also likes many of the traditional ones and the winemakers really don’t think he doesn’t understand what their wine is about. Second, he really has done a lot–much more than in Burgundy–to increase the international market for their wines. And third, while I don’t share his taste for overripe, understructured wines, it’s not hard to understand why many people do without resort to silly theories about Parker lemmings or winemakers who make wine to his taste rather than their own. Viognier, for instance, adds an easy hit of aromatics to Southern Rhone whites that will easily give them wider appeal and one can see that Cairanne’s recent romance with the variety has increased the presence of their whites in the marketplace.
Thanks for the responses everyone, much appreciated.
I’ve experienced that awkward mid-shutdown-phase a few times and with my little experience figured they would come out of it, but wasn’t completely sure. I’m going to try and tuck a few away to see how they show at that 6-10 year mark. I’m often left thinking in their youth that while enjoyable, some bottle age would serve them well.
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