What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

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Howard Cooper
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#51 Post by Howard Cooper » June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm

If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin. https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/dom+ ... rt_order=e Excellent producer, but the wines take a long time to mature. I have had the 1998, 1990 and 2001 a number of times and none are really mature, although each are excellent. I have tasted at the domaine four times now and the wines are consistently excellent. [As of about three years ago, the 2001 Chambertin was still available at the domaine for 175 Euros, a price that includes the VAT. Do not know if it is still available there.]

The 2001 Latricieres Chambertin (excellent grand cru vineyard but not a "top end" vineyard, depending on what that means) from them is drinking wonderfully right now.
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Mark Golodetz
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#52 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 8th, 2019, 6:20 pm

Also a fan of Rossignol Trapet, one of the few bargains left in Burgundy. However I prefer the Trapet wines which have more depth, and are still within Jay’s price range.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#53 Post by Gerhard P. » June 9th, 2019, 1:33 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm
If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
...
You´ve forgotten La Romanée ... ! flirtysmile
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#54 Post by paul hanna » June 9th, 2019, 4:35 am

Faiveley Musigny is the rarest, and possible most underrated of the "top end non DRC" reds.

Fantastic quality, very rare (half the production of Roumier's Musigny) and, compared to many others, could really still be considered to be under priced....

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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#55 Post by Howard Cooper » June 9th, 2019, 4:48 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 1:33 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm
If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
...
You´ve forgotten La Romanée ... ! flirtysmile
I know that you really enjoy correcting everyone, but in the context of this thread, what would have been the purpose of discussing la Romanee. If he does not want to pay for DRC, I did not think he would want to pay for la Romanee. Do you? The purpose of my post was to suggest what I think of as the best value in the type of wines Jay's friend is seeking. Of what possible relevance is your post in the context of the point of my post?
Last edited by Howard Cooper on June 9th, 2019, 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#56 Post by Howard Cooper » June 9th, 2019, 4:55 am

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 6:20 pm
Also a fan of Rossignol Trapet, one of the few bargains left in Burgundy. However I prefer the Trapet wines which have more depth, and are still within Jay’s price range.
I know a lot of people agree with you and love the wines from Trapet. For me, when I have tasted them, I have found that they are not really my style - among other things I have found them for me to be too oaky. As is often the case, when I don't really like a producer's wines that much on first brush, I don't seek them out further and thus do not have nearly the experience with the wines of Trapet as I do of the wines from Rossignol-Trapet.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#57 Post by Gerhard P. » June 10th, 2019, 7:32 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 4:48 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 1:33 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 4:58 pm
If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze, IMHO, the best value in wine from any of these vineyards is Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
...
You´ve forgotten La Romanée ... ! flirtysmile
I know that you really enjoy correcting everyone, but in the context of this thread, what would have been the purpose of discussing la Romanee. If he does not want to pay for DRC, I did not think he would want to pay for la Romanee. Do you? The purpose of my post was to suggest what I think of as the best value in the type of wines Jay's friend is seeking. Of what possible relevance is your post in the context of the point of my post?
No, no - you wrote: "If we limit the very top vineyards for reds in Burgundy to Romanee Conti, la Tache, Musigny, Richebourg, Romanee St. Vivant, Grands Echezeaux, Chambertin and Clos de Beze,"

... in my humble opinion La Romanée belongs to the very top vineyards (that was my statement).
If he doesn´t want to pay for DRC it´s no use to list La Tache either, less so RC ...

However I agree that Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin is a good value ... but there are other ones, for instance several RSV or GE ...
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#58 Post by Eric Egan » June 10th, 2019, 8:58 am

Gerhard P. wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 7:32 am

However I agree that Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin is a good value ... but there are other ones, for instance several RSV or GE ...
Yes - there are definitely still some good value wines from GE. I had a a Jean-Marc Millot Grands-Echezeaux 1997 recently that was shockingly good for the price and vintage.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#59 Post by Gerhard P. » June 10th, 2019, 9:07 am

Eric Egan wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 8:58 am
Gerhard P. wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 7:32 am

However I agree that Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin is a good value ... but there are other ones, for instance several RSV or GE ...
Yes - there are definitely still some good value wines from GE. I had a a Jean-Marc Millot Grands-Echezeaux 1997 recently that was shockingly good for the price and vintage.
Right - I had the Echezeaux (not the GE) 1997 earlier this year ... and it was definitely excellent - and in a very good state of maturity.
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Re: What's the nest top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#60 Post by Dave McCloskey » June 10th, 2019, 9:22 am

Jay Miller wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:40 am
Aside from the excellent suggestions above you might try Liger Belair. My experience is limited to their VR Reignots.

edited to add: I see Eric ninja'ed me on the LB suggestion.
The 2015 vintage are going anywhere from $4K - $8K according to Wine Searcher.

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Re: What's the nest top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#61 Post by Jay Miller » June 10th, 2019, 10:58 am

Dave McCloskey wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 9:22 am
Jay Miller wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:40 am
Aside from the excellent suggestions above you might try Liger Belair. My experience is limited to their VR Reignots.

edited to add: I see Eric ninja'ed me on the LB suggestion.
The 2015 vintage are going anywhere from $4K - $8K according to Wine Searcher.
Wow, last time I looked it sold for $500-600. That wasn't too long ago.
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Re: What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#62 Post by A Songeur » June 10th, 2019, 11:53 am

paul hanna wrote:
June 9th, 2019, 4:35 am
Faiveley Musigny is the rarest, and possible most underrated of the "top end non DRC" reds.

Fantastic quality, very rare (half the production of Roumier's Musigny) and, compared to many others, could really still be considered to be under priced....
Faiveley bought the Dufouleur plot which allowed it to triple its area. I don't know how it will impact the quality but the Dufouleur was not a great Musigny with Dufouleur admitting their Clos Vougeot was better than the Musigny most years.

Anyway, the new version will not drink well for the next 20 years, I assume (excluding infanticides)
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Re: What's the nest top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

#63 Post by Dave McCloskey » June 10th, 2019, 12:13 pm

Jay Miller wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 10:58 am
Dave McCloskey wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 9:22 am
Jay Miller wrote:
June 6th, 2019, 11:40 am
Aside from the excellent suggestions above you might try Liger Belair. My experience is limited to their VR Reignots.

edited to add: I see Eric ninja'ed me on the LB suggestion.
The 2015 vintage are going anywhere from $4K - $8K according to Wine Searcher.
Wow, last time I looked it sold for $500-600. That wasn't too long ago.
Most of the wines recommended are $300 to over $8K, depending on the vintage. BTW, that's one thing I like about Wine Searcher. If you don't have time to look-up vintage ratings you can pretty much guess by looking at the prices on WS. The good vintages typically go for significantly more money.

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