A ‘simple’ request to construct a short restaurant wine list, not optimized to a particular cuisine, but offering a wide enough range of wines to satisfy almost any food pairing, mood, taste or occasion. The criteria are the following arbitrary ones:
(1) No more than 25 bottles on the list. (the fewer the “better” in some sense)
(2) All wines should be “ready to drink” now.
(3) The wines should be “generally available” at the retail level.
(4) The list should target the average approximate current retail price per bottle. For example, select a target of $100, $50, $25 or whatever you wish for the average approximate current retail price of the wines on the list.
(5) The maximum approximate current retail price for any bottle on the list should be no more than 3 times the average. For example if your list averages $50 then the most expensive bottle should be $150 or less. Again these are approximate current retail prices, not the price that will appear on the wine list.
I would prefer that you stick with restrictive criteria as put forth, rather than tweak and revise, but I know that might be unlikely among this group of keen and independent thinkers. The concept is the main thing. Pick your favorite price “ballpark” and see if it can be done. If inclined, construct more than one list at different price levels.
P.S. Idea was triggered by comments Jim Cowan made in a recent thread about best restaurant wine lists.
This is what ruins most restaurant wine lists.
Especially when they’re deep in late vintage Barolo or classified red Bordeaux - wines which can easily age for 40-60 years.
Nowadays most restaurants don’t stay in business nearly long enough to make their cellared wines drinkable.
If you’re demanding ‘ready to drink now’, then you need to be looking at downgrading to Bordeaux Superieur and Piemonte Barbera or Dolcetto.
Not really sure about 4
Does that mean all 25 should retail for approximately the same price, eg $40?
I would be hard pressed to come up with a short list. There are people who must have French wine, some Italian wines and some specific Napa wines. Cant be too narrow. Then there are the age groups and their preferences including those who followed Parker to high octane wines. Add one more level, the boxed wine, cellphone commercially driven group that won’t discover fine wine for another 10 years.
I think constructing the list itself is a fairly simple exercise. The trouble is, as Randy indicates, the degree to which the consumer comes to the list with preconceived notions and is not willing to accept recommendations.
Meeting your criteria 1-5 is not all that difficult, and I would add that the key is to have wines with a great deal of up front appeal. This is not a time to get too geeky or select wines that need some past experience to appreciate.
The end result is a list that will appeal readily to the average person, and from which wine geeks like ourselves will have to be content with something we know is well made and appealing, if not quite the treasure trove we all hope for with wine lists (and which is increasingly non-existent anyway.)
Some good candidates,
Giacosa Roero Arneis
Domaine de Pouy
Silver Oak Alexander Valley
Louis Latour Grand Ardeche
Louis Jadot Beaujolais
Badia a Coltibuono
Drouhin Saint Veran
Jordan
Chateau St. Georges
Chateau du Donjon
Turley Zinfandel OVZ
Cristalino - Brut and Rose
Roederer Anderson Valley
Plenty more where that came from. All widely available, nicely drinkable, overperforming- relatively speaking, and covering a wide range of tastes.
Interesting exercise. Nothing btg?
Here’s my attempt:
Sparkling (3):
2013 Schramsberg BdB $80
NV Diebolt Vallois BdB $100
Krug Grand Cuvee (375) $200
White (9):
2016 Meinklang Gruner Veltliner $45
2016 Los Bermejos Malvasia $60
2016 Talley Chardonnay Edna Valley $65
2016 Paul Pernot Bourgogne $75
2016 Sigalas Assyrtiko $80
2016 La Chablisenne 1er Montee de Tonnere $90
2016 Graci Arcuria Blanco $120
2013 Stony Hill Chardonnay $130
2016 Bouchard Meursault Le Clous $140
Rose (2):
2016 Amats Tzatkolina Rose $45
2016 Domaine Tempier Rose $90
Red (11):
2014 Tapiz Malbec Alta Collecion $50
2015 Altesino Rosso di Montalcino $60
2016 Siduri Pinot Noir RRV $75
2015 Chateau Capbern $75
2016 Moric Blaufrankisch $80
2015 Mongeard Mugneret Fixin $85
2016 Coudoulet de Beaucastel $90
2014 Robert Mondavi Oakville CS $100
2016 JL Chave Offerus $100
2012 Barbi Brunello di Montalcino $120
2015 Ramonet Chassagne Montrachet Rouge $150
Too busy to do 25 now, but among those I would include:
A Finger Lakes riesling
a Loire cab franc that retails for around $20
a hipper California wine like Lioco (white) or Field Recordings, Broc (red)
a Rossese di Dolceacqua, if you can find one in quantity
I like the Arneis selection above
Is this for a restaurant you are working in?
2 and 3 are incompatible, unless you are resigned to a very narrow band of wines.
It’s the accessible at retail part that’s tricky. I felt like my list generally meets that requirement.
Karl . . .No, all bottles don’t need to be roughly the same price, but you should target an average price for the list. A $50 target wine list could have bottles that ranged from $20 to $150 for example but average roughly $50. No need for all of them to be around $50 to get an average of $50 (see Michael’s list how he has range of prices)
Tom and Michael. . . quicker response than I expected, thanks for getting into the spirit of the exercise. Michael thanks for the complete and great detail - impressive, Bravo!
Markus . . . It is for an imaginary restaurant. I was intrigued by comments that Jim Cowan made in a post on a restaurant wine programs thread https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2621950#p2621950
James . . . Please tweak and revise the criteria as needed if you want to play and you can’t see it working for you as specified; I was trying to see if someone could actually put together such a list from what is out there today. And to construct the list at different average prices depending on the target audience of the restaurant and what they might spend for wine.
Precisely.
By the time most fine wines are ready to drink, they have long since vanished from the local retail channel [and many of them won’t even appear on Wine-Searcher Pro].
Ready-to-drink & still in the channel means varietals like Barbera, Dolcetto, Moscato and Prosecco.
Certainly Poulsard, and maybe also Grenache & Mourvedre.
Possibly certain wines made from Sangiovese.
[I don’t know enough about Merlot to comment on it.]
Most Chardonnays & Rieslings drink well young [although, barring Prem-Ox, they’d drink better old].
But you can forget about Nebbiolo & Cabernet & Cab Franc & Pinot & Syrah [with the possible exception of Shiraz].
I cringe every time I see a restaurant list with young red wines which need 40 years or more in order to approach peak drinking windows.
I feel like the wines I listed are pretty accessible. Would they be primary? Sure. Might they get better in 3-5 years? Sure, in some cases. I’d argue they’d be enjoyable now, though.
How about this for a 25 wine list:
Sparkling:
Roederer Estate
Bereche Brut Reserve
Riesling
Trimbach Cuvee Frederick Emile
Zilliken Saarburger Rausch Kabinett
Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Kabinett
Chardonnay
Dublere Bourgogne Blanc
Bernard Moreau Bourgogne Blanc
Bernard Moreau Chassagne Montrachet Morgeot
Christian Moreau Chablis les Clos
Other white
Domaine de Chevalier Blanc
Pinot Noir
Dublere Chorey-les-Beaune La Maladerotte
Hudelot Noellat Bourgogne Rouge
Jean-Claude Ramonet Chassagne-Montrachet Clos de la Boudriotte
Hudelot Noellat Vosne Romanee
Rossignol-Trapet Chapelle-Chambertin [this wine would be the most expensive on the list by a decent bit. I like the idea of having a special occasion wine on the list that still is an excellent value compared with other grand cru Burgs. But, if necessary to meet some criterion or something we need to tone this down, substitute the RT Gevrey Chambertin Petite Chapelle.]
Cabernet, Merlot, etc.
Patache d’Aux
Chateau Cantemerle
Domaine de Chevalier
Stony Hill Cabernet
Italian
Produttori del Barbaresco
Mastroberardino Taurasi Radici Riserva
Vajra Barolo Bricco delle Viole
Sweet
Chateau Climens
Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Auslese
Schloss Lieser Niederberg Helden Riesling Auslese Goldkapsel
The sweet wines would be sold in half bottles and I would like to have, if possible, an assortment of some of the less expensive of these wines available in half bottles.
My wine by the glass program would be the Zilliken Kabinett, the Bourgogne Blancs from Dublere and Moreau, the red from Dublere, the Bourgogne Rouge from HN, the Patache d’Aux, the Produttori and the Mastroberardino.
Nathan, First, where are these “ready to drink” wines hiding so my imaginary restaurant can get access to them? Second I also don’t want anyone “cringing” at the wine list in my restaurant!!! I think you have some ideas for the wine list that I am requesting and I would be interested in seeing them. Please feel free to remove/modify the requested “ready to drink” requirement and give it a go if you have the time/inclination. With a 25 bottles or fewer limit, maybe don’t have too many on the list not presently “ready to drink”. Thanks. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
-Jim
Michael, Not familiar with many of these wines, but in terms of providing me with a wine list for my restaurant within my requested criteria, you absolutely nailed it !!! You’ve provided me specific bottles including vintage and approximate retail price. Please feel free to use me as a reference for future wine list gigs. Best, -Jim
Howard, Your proposed wine list is so well thought out . . . down to your consideration of half bottle dessert wines and wines by the glass. Really like this. Thanks. -Jim
Thanks.
LOL, that’s because Howard is retired and has nothing else to do with his time! And yes, excellent list, I would eat and drink there. Well done Howard.
I would love to see a Loire Cabernet Franc on this type of list. There are two restaurants in my town that I frequent regularly that have a short list like this, and both always carry a very nice Cabernet Franc from Loire, like Baudry Les Granges. These are in expensive wines, and are remarkably food friendly. I have asked the Somms at both restaurants whether they sell well, and a simple answer to my surprise was, yes.
There are a lot of wines I would have added to the list if it got to be longer and a Loire Cab Franc would be one of them (although I likely would have added a Loire Chenin Blanc first). Others I thought about included Chateau Predeaux (although they take a long time to be drinkable), Vajra Rosso (to have a pretty cheap wine there) and Kalin Chardonnay (to blow the minds of a lot of customers).
Howard, don’t let this young buck diminish your achievement. I also am retired and seem to have nothing else to do with my time, to which I would respond. “Seemingly!”
Robert, I know you are still developing the laser-like monomania that comes with age, so I will cut you some slack and be patient with your proposed wine list. Take all the time you need. I’m not doing anything.