I’m new to trying to buy some older bottles of wine and would like to try getting a wine for my birth year (1972) but am not sure what signs to look for to know if the bottle still has potential to be good. Which of these can be overlooked and which should be deal breakers:
Lightly depressed cork
Top shoulder fill
Low to medium shoulder fill
Base neck fill
Scuffed capsule
Soiled capsule
Corroded capsule
Worn capsule
Wrinkled capsule
Signs of past seepage
For me, signs of past seepage is almost always a deal breaker. Only exception is if it’s incredibly cheap, and more of a “curiosity” that would be fun to try/take a flier on.
I also dislike slightly depressed corks and lower fill levels, but it doesn’t make me run away as fast as past seepage does.
“Signs of past seepage” is a big red flag for me.
I don’t know what level of ullage is appropriate for a '72, but capsule issues, to my understanding, all are possible symptoms of past seepage.
I would not take any one capsule or label problem as a dead ringer for a spoiled bottle, as it could be merely cosmetic - other wine bottles in a bin could break or leak onto your auction item.
One recommendation would be to consider the immediate source above almost everything else (except obvious signs of poor provenance). The store is in the best position to understand the provenance. I bought a number of 1964 and 1965 wines from Chambers Street Wines and they were all in great condition. I bought there based on recommendations from people on WB. I’ve also had quite good experience with K&L.
Assuming a standard Bordeaux style bottle, I think top shoulder is okay for 1972. In the neck would be great. I wouldn’t worry much about capsule or label conditions as good cellars can be pretty hard on appearance. Leakage isn’t absolutely a killer but I avoid those bottles.
1972 could be tough. If you expand your options to wines older than you, there could be a huge set of great choices.
Another possibility is a vintage dated spirit. I see there is a 1972 Chateau de Laubade Armagnac that is pretty widely available.
As others state, signs of seepage are usually a no-bid for me.
For Bdx shaped bottles over 40 years old, base neck is quite good, top shoulder ok, low to medium should be no bid or serious discount.
In general capsule/label conditions don’t especially worry me, though corroded capsule can be a sign of seepage.
As mentioned above, I find provenance to be the most important. I’ve seem issues with labels and capsules based on the cellar which could just be the humidity levels causing the damage. Slightly depressed corks don’t concern me as much as protruding corks, which I would rarely ever buy.
Depending on age, corroded capsules just might be that older capsules made from lead are more prone.
How can tell if there has been seepage? I have not bought older wines online, but I assume you would be looking at pictures online.
Any reputable retailer/auction house that wants to stay in business should describe the condition of the bottle thoroughly and indicate if there’s signs of seepage (otherwise that’s a whole different problem).
As mentioned, provenance is an issue. But you’re relying on someone’s word, so you never truly know.
Other than that, I wouldn’t worry about cosmetic things at all. That means scuffed or torn or stained labels or capsules. You might want those to be pristine if you are reselling the bottle, but not so much when you’re drinking.
A beat-up bottle may not have been stored all that well, but you can’t tell that from the condition of the label or capsule. It may simply have stuck to a shelf or something, or someone crammed another bottle in a space that was too small and left them both alone for thirty years. I have bottles with scuffed labels that I’ve damaged myself. I don’t particularly care and it doesn’t mean anything about the wine.
Corks are the weak link and seepage isn’t good.
I actually might guess that wines with spotted, wrinkled, stained, moldy or torn labels were more likely to have been stored well in a proper storage cabinet. Wines that just sat around somewhere should usually have a perfect label.
I’m assuming you’ve tasted older wines, but if not, make sure you know (and like) how they taste after they have developed in bottle. Although most will be sound and at least drinkable, its no fun paying up to drink stewed swill or vinegar.
The category of vendor I would be most skeptical about would be smaller local stores that aren’t really in the business of selling older wines, but have some at that instant. There could be lots of innocent reasons (consignment was too small for the larger players, local widow wanted husbands wine pimp to clean up the cellar, etc.) But in general those vendors don’t have the experience/knowledge to be sure that the 30-40 year old bottles they are offering are really what they think they are, or are still sound, or whatnot.
Just identifying older wines, long out of production, is itself a skill / knowledge that is not so easy. I’ve had times where it worked in my favor getting a creme de tete shipped when I thought had won a base level bottling (to be fair the level was in very tiny type, and it was the only year they ever made that luxe level, and I only discovered that years later). And also times where its the reverse – where I was shipped a negociant equivalent wine rather than the estate bottling that had been described (and paid for). I’d just rather items are described accurately, and that itself is hard for old/very old wines, especially for shops/vendors that don’t know the region deeply.
As others have menioned, SOPS is a deal breaker. The rest of your list is generally meaningless, except for fill levels, which can vary a lot in 40+ year old wines. I just drank '69 and '71 bordeauxs tonight that had high shoulder fills and they were great.
However, your biggest issue is your 1972 birthyear. Not a lot of great wines bottled from that vintage, and if they weren’t well made wines when they were bottled, an additional 40 years of aging didn’t magically turn them into great wines today. All the wrinkled capsules and bin soiled labels don’t mean crap when it comes to whether a wine is still good today if the wine didn’t have the raw materials to age to begin with.
I accumulate wines from a wedding anniversary year 1989. I know you didn’t ask this, but I have found using Cellertracker and Wine Searcher are good tools to find wines of a certain year. I start by putting in 1989 in Cellartracker search. Then I take the enormous results and look at two things first. I resort the list to prioritze the greatest quantity and then look down the list at the regular folks scores because the professional reviewers scores are usually to old. Then I read reviews of ones that interest me. If they look good and prices seem approachable then I link to Wine Searcher Pro to see whats available. The other thing I do is take that same search and prioritize by highest score. I then look down and try to finds ones that are not just one person giving it a 100. If I am still uncertain about a particular wine, then I will find a store where it is offered thru WS that has written reviews and read them. Another alternative is to search the producer and wine in Berserkers. Guess you can tell I have too much time on my hands.
When training staff, I use: “cosmetic indications of proper storage”. Signs of humidity - soiled or molded labels are a positive. Capsule corrosion also seems to be producer dependent - Opus, for example, often has capsule corrosion especially when cellared near the coast. And I’ve yet to hear a plausible explanation of how corrosion is anything more than cosmetic.
Bottle fill is more an equation of price and your risk tolerance. Bottom neck is correct for its age (1972), and top shoulder is also good at that age. The price should drop from there, unless we are talking about a rare wine.
Seepage is a gamble - one that we no longer take. We now return SOS bottles to collectors - and will reject an entire collection if a small percentage of the overall collection has seepage.
Finally - Arv has the right idea on making sure old wine is agreeable. Don’t go way outside your price comfort zone expecting magic. Mature wine is different…“good” depends on the audience.
I know this isn’t what you asked, but it’s worth mentioning that I’ve recently had the pleasure of drinking a 1972 Chambertin, and it was tremendously good. Everything you might want in a mature Burgundy. By all reports the second bottle was of equal interest and quality. So if grand cru Burgundy is in your budget, that may be a place to look (since Bordeaux was weak in '72). Rioja also might be a sensible alternative.
What is the primary cause of seepage? Faulty cork? Hot storage conditions?
Thoughts in red
Cosmetic issues can be expected as you go deeper in age, and is not a major flag unless the conditions are really representative of poor storage conditions. It could be a basis for a lower price. HDH will price these bottles lower.
Could be either or both in combination. I always thought cold (i.e., freezing) could also do it.
You don’t mention elevated cork which along with SOS is one of the two big red flags for me.
Ullage depends on how old it is. Top shoulder on a 10 year old wine is a huge red flag. On a 40 year old wine not so much.