Which tastings pay off?

Which tastings pay off?

Wineries, Distributors, or Retailers, we are inundated with opportunities to pour our wine – or have it poured – at various events. Where have you seen the most bang for your promotional buck? What is worth our wine, time, and money?

I’m leaving two choices off the poll: Tasting Room and Personal Charities. I excluded Tasting Room as I assume it is good for business and most wineries have one if possible. I excluded Personal Charities because I figure, you, like me, support certain charities because they have a special place in your heart so “pay off” be damned.

If I don’t screw this up, you can vote for up to three choices and change your vote later. But please don’t feel like you need to use every vote. Don’t vote for something if you feel like it is a waste of time.

Randy,

I am not in the biz, so I am answering as a consumer. I voted for wine dinners and market visits from a consumer standpoint. The dinner opportunities let me spend more time with the wines than a large tasting and get a better idea of it and how it will fit into my drinking habits. I usually purchase more after a dinner event than wines from a large tasting.

The market visits let me have the instant gratification of purchase if I like something.

Hope this helps and that my votes don’t scre up the statistical validity of your poll.

Randy. Great thread! We’ve been battling for years which tastings to attend, and where to spend our marketing dollars. We’ve found that we get lost in some of the larger tastings, and most (consumers) want to taste the cults / highly rated wines first. Then when they get to our table, they’re blitzkrieged.

We’ve pulled out of many tastings this (and last) year, even Trade Tastings, and are using our marketing dollars for market visits / rep work withs. We’ve found these to be the most successful due to the focus and personal contact with the buyer.

Looking forward to hearing what others find successful.

Good thread. As an interested geek who attends tastings of all sorts I look forward to opinions and results here.

I have to agree with T-bone on the large tastings.

As a consumer, I find these tastings fun because i get to check out new vintages from favorite producers without having to spend a day in wine country. From a winery standpoint though, most of these tasting aren’t bringing new consumers to the table. instead they bring the usual crowd who already knows about the wines, is on the mailing list and/or is doing exactly what I’d be doing as a consumer…checking out new vintages.

From the trade side of things as well, it seems the “high profile restaurants” don’t really send their people to these tastings either. Instead you get retail trade, which can be good or bad. when I was with Outpost and KB and we showed up at the events, we got skewered by retailers b/c they came by to taste wine they won’t get anyway…almost exactly how they put it. Plus it seems some really aren’t purchasers and are really looking at the wines they know too.

Some events, like ZAP, are just huge parties where people are really interested in just coming to something they can treat as a bar and drink a bunch of wine for their $45 entry fee.

Ocassionally a winery gets discovered and praised but it is now where near as powerful as say a few years ago when the mention of some hotshot new producer would have a lot of people chasing wine.

I would have to say winemaker dinners are pretty good, if the restaurant does a good job promoting the event to their mailing list. Why, b/c they generally bring in foodies who are interested in wine but many don’t belong to too many mailing lists so they use dinners like that to discover someone new. Plus it gives folks the opporunity to interact with the winemaker/owner…face to the label…

Otherwise, focus on reps/really hitting restaurants and getting to the sommeliers/wine buyers. The folks that will push your wine when customers ask for wine. These are the people who haven’t heard of you but a good experience will lead them to seek it out.

We’ve struggled with this topic as well the past few years. We decided to drop all of the large events, with the only exception being the Wine Spectator Wine Experience. And even the WS WEs doesn’t really get you a good return on investment (money and time).

What I prefer the most these days are trade tastings done either by a distributor or one that a few of us Pinot guys put together ourselves. After that, it’s probably distributor “work-withs”, although they are very time consuming.

Winemaker dinners are fun, but I’m starting to get burned out on them a bit. Love seeing the people, but the format often makes it difficult to interact one on one with folks. Plus, they’re usually at the end of a long day, so I’m really wiped out afterward.

Not to mention all the vegetables.

Absolutely agree with T-Bone. And he’s in the know …

Dinners … not so hot. Sure, you pick up a few fans, but you’ll get 0-2 TRUE fans (loyal, returning purchasers) from each dinner after travel, hotel, wine, and time. We stopped doing them long ago.

Big tastings … watch for the hot new thing. We used to do the Fort Mason ZAP tasting in 1997-2003, and came away with fat wads of retailer/restaurant business cards. As the event grew, the business card pile wasted down to nothing. We stopped doing those, too. Expenses = hotel+restaurant for us AND family/guests, travel, time, hangover on Superbowl weekend. Your best bet is the small regional tastings with a theme that fits your demographic.

Trade tastings … can be fruitful IF you are prepared. Do you REALLY want to break into that regional market? Why? Are you prepared to support and visit your reps and clients? Does the demographic fit your wine and brand, or are you just yearning to be placed on certain restaurant lists for ego gratification? Do you know how to work a trade tasting and what to bring to the table (so to speak)? Or do you expect to just party with reps and have them remember you next week?

Rep ride-a-longs … my favorite!!! We have ONE wine bar in San Diego that sells 100 cases of our Cujo zinfandel each year, and we only produce 700 cases! The key, though, is to expand your awareness. You should not go just to be the hero on a stallion (yes, I am the winemaker/winery owner, adore me). Use the opportunity to subtly vett your accounts. Snotty? Advise your rep to not waste their time, they won’t be a loyal account. Slow pay? Well, that just drags your distributor down and delays your check. Food pairing? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to sit down at dinner with a distributor rep and explain that they should LOOK at the menu and THINK about the chef’s cuisine before suggesting wines from our portfolio. I once walked into a SF Italian joint that makes handmade pasta, and our rep was suggesting our viognier and syrah. Headsmak! I pulled over the menu and suggested the old vine zin and the sangiovese (tiny production) instead. The owners eyes totally lit up and we sold 5 cases on the spot. Duh.

For me the big tastings are fun, but I’m not sure I always get a great picture of the wines. Too many people crowding in front, bumping into me, etc.

For example, I briefly met you Randy at the Napa Cab tasting up in NYC about two months ago. I tasted your cab and thought it was good, but I didn’t get to chat too long. Now I see a lot of people on the wine boards talking up the Match wines and I’m upset I didn’t spend more time on yours.

I would say that is a pretty average encounter at those things. Sure I get to taste a lot of wine, but it is hard to really get a feel for them in that setting.

Trade tastings are a little more fun. I wish I could have made it to the trade portion of that Napa tasting. Generally everyone is more interested in learning and you can get into deeper conversations with the winemakers and importers. really learn about the wines, and then use that knowledge to bring in new products to your store.

I manage a store in Maryland, and I have brought in numerous wines I have learned about in trade tastings. It’s also fun to relate those stories to customers and help them pick out wines. More to talk about.

Ride alongs can be very fruitful. We have had a lot of great wineries stop by our store and it is the best way to learn and ask questions directly to someone who knows (short of traveling to the winery). It helps get placements in the stores and again, when I sell a bottle, I have a story to relate to a customer.

Not sure if any of this is helpful!

I have been thinking about this lately as well. I think we pour at too many events that do not really pay off. But for the first time ever this year, we did not pour in the park at Winefest. I think that event works better for the small new wineries trying to get exposure.

I think that’s an excellent point, Linda, and it’s why I answered the poll the way I did since we’re a small new winery. I chose two less popular choices: Trade Tastings and Large Events (I think that’s right, I can’t see the poll right now as I write this). Exposure is huge for us right now, and having a chance at the crowds drawn to trade tastings or a large AVA event when there are big name neighboring wineries in attendance is very important.

As we get more distribution (a real challenge in this economy!!!) I can see putting a lot more energy into those channels.

Hi all-

This is my first post here, and at the risk of possibly being seen as a shill for the Non-Profit event I founded 6 years ago Pinot on the River (http://www.pinotfestival.com) here is my take.

I founded the event as a way for me to hook up with Pinot producers directly. It was the first place I tried Loring, Pali, Kosta Browne, and so many others. I hope they were pleased too because I buy their wines!

I think everyone who comes to an event like POTR, is there because they like Pinot, and are looking for new ones, I know that’s true for me…

Now, I am about to release my own Pinot’s http://www.roadhousewinery.com , and I have to choose where and how to present them. My little operation cannot afford to fly me anywhere, much less put me up in a hotel, pay for meals, etc etc…

So I think smallish events (that I can drive too) where I can get a word in edgewise, and are specifically targeted at my demographic (Mostly Middle-Aged Pinot Consumers like myself) is where I’ll choose to spend my limited marketing dollars… If I can have a good time while I’m there, so much the better…

Eric-

My former profession was traveling the country selling my wines. I must agree with Mary here as a 1 on 1 with the rep can be very fruitful. Making a personal connection to the rep and maintaining contact will do your brand well. Many reps also need more “training” on how to work their accounts because many have just been thrown into the fire. I’ve been seeing so many new reps recently who like to drop by without an appt, throw me their book and start telling me what I need for the restaurant without 1. looking at the menu and 2. not knowing what is on the list already. It’s sad that there is so much turnover in the trenches but regular visits with distributors will better provide you with access to the reps directly instead of your desires falling on deaf ears in the distributor office.

Nice event… but dude, during harvest? If we were local, we might be able to attend… but trying to make it up to Sonoma for an event when we could still have wine in fermenters isn’t doable. And certainly nothing we can commit to any more.

great thread!

as a small(ish) winery -and 100& direct to consumer - we’re pretty careful with where we spend our marketing dollars. right now, we’re getting the best exposure and return by participating local events (Sonoma Valley) like barrel tasting weekends, passport weekends, jazz festivals, and the like. the out of pocket expense for these types of events are manageable, and there is a good mix of wine geeks who are looking to expand their pallets and diversify their cellars with “off the beaten path” varietals, as well as those new to the wine-tasting experience who find it less intimidating to attend a large event with friends, than to roll into an unknown tasting room on their own.

Hehe… there is always space for you and your fine wines Brian… if you ever wanna join us at the last minute (fermenting notwithstanding) let me know and I’ll make it happen…

BTW, it’s being held at Rodney Strong nowadays…great venue…

E-

For those of you who have to pick and chose, stay away from the Boston wine Expo - at least from a consumer point of view, it’s just a booze fest. I have no inside retailer knowledge, so for all I know it’s a good place to be…just saying what I see when there!

I’d actually be interested to know…do you see business from this thing?

Speaking as an ex-somm (i.e. a real, honest-to-Pete, working one)/wine director turned importer/distributor, I voted for dinners and market visits, because as Velebil mentioned, putting a winemaker in front of an audience that can have a fairly intimate interaction with him/her is a very powerful tool for building relationships, and it’s the relationships that make so much of the difference.

One of the other benefits, of course, is that you not only build the relationship between the winery and the consumer, but also between the winery and the distributor, the winery and the host restaurant or retailer, and the distributor and the host venue (restaurant, retail). That’s a lot of value building, IMO!

The commitment, time, and organization it takes to pull off a market visit or dinner really reinforces all of those core relationships, because in each case the fundamental statement is, “You are important to me.”

Of course, if you just want to move boxes, strike up a deal with Costco.

And if you’re an asshole, or your product sucks, forget it. But there’s still Costco.

This poll turned out exactly as I expected. Basically, face time with customers is what pays off whether it be visiting existing accounts or hosting them for special tastings, open houses, dinners, or evenings.

I posted this poll to see if everyone experienced the same thing I was seeing: from a sales standpoint, big tastings (whether trade or public), charitable donations, and wine festivals are basically a waste. (Though I must say I poured at one Wine Fest just because I heard Tower of Power was playing.) I wanted to make sure that it wasn’t just a case of me picking the wrong places to pour.

Oh well. I guess we never learn. We keep pouring thinking that one magical customer will appear and we’ll get that big break. In a couple of weeks, I’m pouring at a wine tasting for Google Employees at their HQ. It should get them really drunk and probably result in zero sales for me. I’ll have fun though.

I’m just an outsider looking in, but I never really understood wineries pouring at those big events unless they have 50,000 cases to move. You may get a few customers from pouring there, but I can’t see the expense being worth the new business generated. You must pour more wine than you sell, plus the travel expenses, etc. (any fee for having a table at these things?)

I think I would focus on my targets. Think about who you need as new customers.

1. People that are into wine - not the occasional wine drinker but those with a passion
2. People on the younger side - you want people that will be customer for years, not someone that will buy a case this year then move on (or die).
3. People that are building a cellar, not always those with a big cellar already - again, you want people that will be buying from you for a decade or more. At some point, the people with big cellars are going to stop buying and probably start selling.
4. People that have a voice - you want people that share their wines with other winos and talk about wines in public forums - word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool.

Personally, I’m surprised more wine makers aren’t out there doing things with hard core wine groups in major cities (maybe they are and I’m just not hearing about it). I belong to three tasting groups (although the lines are blurred between them as many members have crossed over) and I’m sure the same is true in other areas.

I think there are some great marketing opportunities for wineries here:

1. Offering to send a bottle or two to a regular tasting group. The hard core tasing groups that meet on a regular schedule and drink serious wines - not the soccer mom tasting group that drinks white zin. I think this would get you some good exposure, good will and good word of mouth (providing the wines are any good) for really short money.

2. Set up off lines when you’re in a city for another reason. If I was doing a trade tasting or big event, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would spend an extra day to get to know the local wine drinkers. Again, short money since everyone splits the dinner bill and donates wines. Pretty inexpensive way to show case your wines with a core group of consumers (and you may get to taste other great wines too)

3. Do wine dinners that are invitation only. Target people based on your ideal customer and set up a low or no cost opportunity to try your wines - not just a 1 oz pour, but really spend some time with the wines. I bet you could find a local restaurant that would love the exposure too. The problem with the wine maker dinners I see around here is they smell of being a money maker instead of a break even marketing opportunity for the winery and restaurant.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to tell me I’m full of shit.

Andy