TN: 2008 Thierry Allemand Cornas Chaillot (France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Cornas)

[Gerhard_P]

@Eric Texier

@Gerhard P.

So somebody means that the 1991 Bordeaux age better than the 1990?
The 2002 chateauneuf better than the 2001?

Well, 1991 Côte Rotie or Côte de Nuits compared to 1990 or 1989?

Where did I say anything about 1991 Côte-Rotie ? or Côte de Nuits?

@Eric Texier

Maybe, this is a little more complex than you seem to assume, no?
…

If you look carefully of the 2008s from great terroirs, you should realize that they are closer to 1991 than 1990, in many ways, in the Northern Rhone (and in Côte de Nuits also BTW…)!

Wine is always quite complex - and generalizations are … well - generalizations with the usual exceptions …

I don´t have your analyses data, but I would not agree - from my humble tasting experiences - that 2008 is closer to 1991 than to 1990 in style. 1990 was quite powerful but sometimes a bit rustic from the tannin quality with noticable acidity, while 1991 had very nice sweetness in the midpalate, kind of a velvet elegant quality (with age, especially in Cote-Rotie) … something I missed in many 2008 Northern Rhones (and I´m not talking specifically about Cornas) … and the acidity in 08 was quite noticable, the mid-palate drier and shorter …
(as I already said I haven´t tasted the 08 Allemands …)

If I would search for a comparable vintage to 2008 in the 90ies NRhone I´d say 1994 is the closest (and I don´t mean analytically but from the texture and style).

In my view 2008 is not a great vintage in the Northern Rhone, but no doubt several fine wines have been produced.

In Burgundy it´s perhaps easier to compare 2008 to 1991 (and 2009 to 1990) … but there are far more fine wines made in 2008 due to the younger generation … the best 1991s are fine, but there are also a lot of failures …
(and BTW I still prefer most 1990s to the 91s … with certain exceptions … but the real fine 1990s (when mature) have that nice sweetness on the palate many 91s (and 08s) are lacking.

[Eric_Texier]

@Gerhard P.

Where did I say anything about 1991 Côte-Rotie ? or Côte de Nuits?

Well I probably misunderstood you and thought you were saying that there was no way 2008 being better than 2009 since it was not as ripe.

The same thinking would made 1991 a far worse vintage than 1990 or 1989 since t the grapes in 1991 were far less ripe than any of these vintages. By a fair margin.

And in my book, 1991 is a much better vintage in the Northern Rhone than 1990 or 1989. By a fair margin too.

But I guess I didn’t get you alright, then.

[Gerhard_P]

@Eric Texier

And in my book, 1991 is a much better vintage in the Northern Rhone than 1990 or 1989. By a fair margin too.

Well, I think it depends.
I agree absolutely for Cote-Rotie (where the 90s often have a certain rustic component), but not for Hermitage. I do seriously think that most Hermitages from 1990 are superior to their 1991 counterparts (not only La Chapelle and Chave, but also Vallouit Greffieres, Chapoutier Sizeranne, Greal/Sorrel …). The difference might be that (e.g.) La Chapelle 91 is fully mature for years (as is Chave 91), but the 90 not yet.
The same applies to Crozes-Hermitage IMHO: Thalabert 90 is far superior to 91, as was La Guiraude.

In Cornas it´s more a question of personal preference of style - e.g. I once preferred Allemands Reynard 90 over 91, but the Chaillots 91 over 90 …
Both Clape-vintages are fine, but I never had them side by side, so hard to say.
Geynale/Michel 90 was IMHO better than 91 …
I don´t think I ever tasted Verset and Voge 90, but 91 were both really outstanding …
I immensly enjoyed a full case of Juge 1991 cuvee C, but had only one bottle of his 90 …

[jflegler]

Bought a few of these recently thinking my 09s should sleep and just popped one tonight. Alan I’m in complete agreement with your OP. Stellar juice! I spent a lot of time just smelling this wine before even thinking about tasting it. Such complex notes in the fruit and I also felt like I had a chunk of granite in my glass. The same rookie sensation that got me hooked by Burgundy was all I could think.

I’m screwed now, will be ordering Wines of the Northern Rhone reference book immediately and wading into the region chest deep in no time I’m sure! Cheers!

[RS_Beck]

I’ve never had the '89 or '90, but the '91 Clape Cornas I had about a year ago was pretty spectacular.

[RS_Beck]

IMO, all of the issues that have come up in this thread just illustrate how wine can be such a moving target.

Here we have a great example, the 2008 and 2009 Allemand Chaillots are on different paths with different curves and trajectories.

The differences in vintage characteristics mean they can serve different purposes and satisfy different moods, probably serve them with different meals, etc.

Just shows how hard it is to rate wine with hard numbers. If you currently rate the 2009 higher, you’re probably basing it on potential, but how does it compare today? At what point does the '09 overtake the '08 for current drinking?

It’s hard to get scores and even words to explain all of this stuff in a satisfying way.

Makes it fun to discuss, though.