TN: 1998 Ch. Vieux Donjon CdP Rouge

WINE TALK
21

clickly link didn’t work for me…

22

Vieux Telegraphe is from a contiguous plot in La Crau. Both the La Crau and the Telegramme bottlings come from here. Before 2002 Telegramme was called Vieux Mas de Papes.
I don’t know as much about La Roquete but they changed the spelling in 2003. I don’t know what they are calling the wine from La Roquete that doesn’t make it into Piedlong.

23

Late to the game, but Cambie officially started consulting as I remember in 2000. This has always surprised me since I do find 00 and 01 to be pretty classic Vieux Donjons. I date the change to 03. Though at the time I wrote that off to not handling the vintage well, 04, 05 and 06 all seemed not to be like the wines I had known and loved. I have pretty much stopped following them since then, so if they have returned to form, I wouldn’t know it, though nothing I have read or heard would indicate that to me.

24

I didn’t realize that. I was really disappointed by the 03 VD, and simply attributed it to the superhot vintage, not knowing that other facets had changed.

25

The '07 is pretty monstrous. Blech.

26

Very interesting and thanks for the info. I had a 2001 Vieux Donjon recently, which had everything I look for in a Châteauneuf du Pape. Since it was my first time with a Vieux Donjon, I thought about buying that wine more frequently as it’s reasonably priced. But thanks to your info, I will reconsider that thought.

27

So here is technical question: since Vieux Donjon still uses foudres and tanks for aging, they still put all their grapes into one cuvée and they still destem as they did in the '90s, what possible inputs are possible to change the wine?
I can think of picking dates, but what else?

28

Preconceived notions [stirthepothal.gif]

29

In that case, why pay for a consultant?

30

To be able to ensure that most of the production is drunk by folks who let their tastebuds decide what to buy, and don’t give a hoot about whether the consultant is suffering from obesity or not?

And StevenB: the 2010 Vieux Donjon is one heck of a wine.

Possibly up there with the 1990, and definitely on par with the 1998, so perhaps you shouldn’t let Jonathan King (who sang “Everyone’s gone to the Moon” but ended up in jail), or the seemingly very knowledgeable Jonathan of this thread get full control over what you should or shouldn’t drink…

[wink.gif]

Peter

31

wow. for post #18 you sure packed a lot of hate in there.

32

???

Not at all.

Just love of fine wine and dismissal of unsubstantiated thrashing of people, winemakers, consultants and the universe… champagne.gif

2010 VIEUX DONJON
04-27 2016 tasted single blind
Lovely to sniff, this rich, fresh and archetypical traditional CdP is considerably more complex than the 2009. Gorgeous Provençal market aromas and terrific, spicy fruit.
Seamless and juicy taste with thrilling fruit, discrete expansiveness, fine grained, chocolately tannin and a long distinguished aftertaste. Once again this splendid 2010 shines. Drink now if you prefer them young, or keep until it attains maturity, which I’m pretty sure it will.
95/

33

David,

I don’t know exactly what you mean by “pretty monstrous. Blech.”

You must take into consideration that English is not my first language.

Would you care to elaborate a bit?
Or supply possible notes (of course from non-abused bottles perhaps tasted at the Domaine…)

Personally I’m not (yet) overly thrilled by this Vieux Donjon, but my foremost complaint (judged by my most recent notes) is actually a lack of substance/tension/volume, but my first notes and some later ones were really appreciative so perhaps its going through one (or more) closed phases before it shall return to its initial glory?

Anyway, I just feel you might have been a bit too fast on the trigger to completely ditch it.

As they say, it’s not over till the fat lady sings…


2007 Vieux Donjon
06-06 2009 nB
Darker than medium red colour.
Welcoming scents of spices, Christmas pastry, strawberry-compôte and junket pulse from the glass. Very harmonious and “cuddly” with intriguing hints of rusty iron and seeweed. Beautiful, calm and dignified.
Rich, soft and mouth-filling, with an expansive finish and fine acidity, this gorgeous, velvety wine offers a substantial mouthful of traditional Chateauneuf-du-Pape with a more than satisfying aftertaste.
95/

09-08 2009 nB
Slightly maturing colour between medium and dark.
Very nice, fresh and complex young nose with gentle notes of tobacco, beeswax, garrique, fresh apricots, balsamic vinegar, and oriental spices. A beguiling, sultry fruitiness as of strawberries and plums.
Taste harmonious and supple. Good freshness and a gently expansive finish. Quite long, lingering aftertaste. This 007 VD is very enjoyable now and will develop over the next decade.
94/

09-27 2009 sB
Between medium and dark.
Pleasant, biscuity, fresh and attractive. A young nose with splendid depth of fruit. Strawberries with a touch of kirsch.
Taste expansive and seamless, beautiful, fresh and elegant. No hard edges, like biting into a ripe strawberry. Tails off a bit too quickly to be stellar. Still very, very good, though.
94/

11-25 2009 dB
Between dark and medium, red colour.
Cool and fresh as well as richly fruity the budding aroma has an creamy old vine Grenache feel to it. Rose petal jelly, Kirsch and ripe strawberry. Seabreeze and a hint of ryebread. Delicious!
Taste soft and plummy. Surprisingly developed with a slightly dry finish where acidity and soft tannin are noticed. The aftertaste lacks lenght but is juicy if a tad dry. Must retaste.
90/

07-15 2010 dB
Cocoa, caramel and mocca in the soft and pleasant young aroma. There’s a slight hint of greenness to the otherwise delicious fruitiness of cherry and strawberry.
Nice and softly fruity on the palate, buttressed by a good deal of acidity and some tannin. Quite good lenght to the vanilla imbued aftertaste. Pleasant and quaffable though I’d expected a bit more than that.
89/

12-12 2011 dB
A bit darker than medium with red edge.
Oxidised and smelling of ryebread soaked in wine. A bit pruny and tired.
Taste juicy, but with slightly off putting element of figs and eucalyptus.
85?/

12-14 2011 dB
Between dark and medium, maturing colour.
Maturing, spicy and young aroma of cherry and strawberry, wine soaked ryebread and a streak of pungency as well.
Excellent mouthful of exuberant rich, almost liqueur like fruit. Perhaps lacking a bit in freshness but velvety and flattering to drink in large gulps.
Nice lenght too.
92/

10-24 2012 nB
A shade darker than medium with maturing edge.
Deliciously creamy, lactic, spicy and gorgeously ripe aroma. Raspberry, strawberry, milkchocolate and mouthwatering freshness as of orange peel with a hint of freshly sawed juniperwood in the background.
Lovely, very rich and fresh taste with excellent balance and proportions.
Seamless and sexy with a piquant bitter twist to the creamy finish. Medium long, caressing aftertaste. Hard to resist at this stage.
95/

09-28 2013 sB
A bit darker than medium, maturing colour.
Vanilla and ripe, rich fruit in the maturing aroma. Hints of popcorn, truffles and milk chocolate, but also refreshing elements of pineforest and garrique.
Superb, soft, yet persistent taste with excellent gentle finish and long aftertaste. Lovely wine right now, but will, probably - one has to add when remembering how fast the 2000 and 2003 fell apart - keep well. Next day it was just as good, perhaps even better!
95/

10-18 2013 nB
Medium deep with maturing edge.
Maturing, mouthwatering, spicy and bisquity aroma, with a lovely, Pinot-like smootheness to it. In sum, classy.
Taste likewise smooth, seamless and with a charming acidity, which is completely interwoven with the lush fruityness. Bright, focused and downright delicious. One stellar 2007 with perfect balance, great lenght and unrivalled accessability. Drink now and for several years.
95/

08-16 2014 nB
Between dark and medium with maturing edge.
Salinity, eucalyptus, licorice, rich, plummy fruit (strawberries?) as well as cumin and wet, rusty iron in the pleasant aromas.
Smooth, suave and extremely accommodating to drink, this is an archetypical 2007 with its ripe fruit, excellent freshness and long full flavoured finish with a touch of heat in the aftertaste. I believe it will become more delineated and exciting with further cellaring, but it has already improved immensely from its dull adolescent stage.
93/

08-18 2015 nB
Rich fruit, spicy licorice and salinity in the sluggish, open aroma.
Taste soft and loose knit with a trifle heat in the mildly expansive finish. Tails off a little early.
Since I’m not overly enthusiastic I guess I’ll wait a while before opening the next bottle.
91/
Better next day (always a good sign) and I gave it one more point, so probably just a sleeping bottle…

02-18 2016 nB
Muffled, but nicely fruity and spicy aromas.
The taste is certainly amicable and easy to like, but perhaps lacking the tension and depth of a truly great wine. The pretty long aftertaste bodes well for the future, so I’d suggest to try it again in two years.
92/

Peter

ps nB = tasted non blind, sB = tasted single blind, dB = tasted double blind

34

I found the 2007 to be inky, overripe and hot.

35

Thanks a lot for your valuable input!

As you can see from the above, I’m not exactly in tune with your description in my thirteen notes. My suggestion is that you try a bottle at the Domaine if you ever get the chance, so that you might rule out the possibility that you’ve run into a bottle (or case) that has been subjected to devastatingly high temperatures during transport or storage.

A sad fate for thousands and thousands of bottles of this very fragile type of wine.

Grenache oxidises so easily, and then there’s the brett-syndrome… [snort.gif]

Peter

36

Well I won’t be visiting, as I do not like what has happened to the wines. I loved 1995-2001 (I first had Donjon with the 1995), but have found the wines since then to be distasteful.

It’s not heat damage. The wines have changed, and not for the better.

37

I can’t speak for 00-08, but I loved 98 and 99 and what I have had from 09 onwards. In comparison to many other CDPs, Vieux Donjon has come across well (to me, YMMV).

38

I have tried bottles, not at the domaine but bought in CdP. And I think the wine changed. Not to get into either pre-conceived notions about Cambie wines or arrogant dismissals of those who have opinions about wines he is related to as “pre-conceived,” I’ll specify a single difference. Until 01–and one can test this by going back to old tasting notes–VDs when first released had such strong tannic structure that they frequently felt impenetrable when they were fresh off the boat (although when freshly released in the first summer in CdP, the baby fruit did mask the tannins and the voyage clearly did repress the fruit). Since 03, VD has had bright, but for my taste overripe fruit and noticeably slushy tannic structure. Put in a line-up, I might easily mistake it for a Ferrando wine. I would not mistake it for say Vieux Telegraphe. I’m happy if people like wines like these. There are plenty of differently styled wines to go around (for the record, there are Cambie wines I like as well). But I really just don’t agree that any of the post 03 VD wines tasted like the 90 or the 98-01 when young and I doubt they will when older. I have a handful of bottles of the 06 (as I said the last vintage I bought and tasted with any regularity). I don’t think they will crack and and die at all, but they don’t taste to me like say the 99 or 94 did at that age.

I also think the original question to Jeff was a good one. If one doesn’t want to change the style of one’s wine, why pay money to hire a consultant? Not everyone uses an oenologue and there are numbers of them who are much less of a presence than Cambie. At this point, one might hire him because I think his name can help one find an American importer if one is a new or unknown name. But VD had no market need of him, so why did they hire him if they didn’t want his input on how to make their wine?

I am also, by the way, perfectly happy to entertain other explanations for why the wine changed. If, as I said, Cambie started consulting in 00, I don’t see why I wouldn’t notice his change until 04 (considering 03 as a one off). I know ownership changed generational hands, but I doubt the date of the changeover corresponds to this line in the sand. There may be other explanations. But I do notice the change.

39

FWIW, although most people on Cellar Tracker seem to have a positive impression of the 2007 Vieux Donjon, there seems to be a wide range of notes about the style of the wine itself:

I can’t say how much of that is due to bottle variation and how much to palate variation…

Bruce

40

and variations within the lifespan of the wine, as can be seen in 13 notes I’ve taken from (almost) entirely the same selvtransported non heat subjected cases. And the wine has only been in bottle for seven years…

Peter