I appreciate the responses. Since my objective in posting included doing some self-criticism (thereby opening myself up to external criticism too), I’ll try not to be too defensive. There’s a lot of merit in most of the posts. I do think GregT missed the point in an uncharitable way in order to launch into a lecture. But hey, internet.
Barry P’s post gets at a big part of what I think is going on here. I’ve got a modest sized cellar (at least for this crowd) of about 1000 bottles. It’s big enough that I don’t ever need to drink wine I don’t like. But among wines that I do like, there is certainly a narrative component. Everybody has to figure out why among two tasty, well-made wines, one should buy/drink Wine A rather than Wine B. Whether its a winery that in Italy that I visited on my honeymoon, a wine that was recommended to me by someone whose palate I trust, a winemaker that showed friendliness and generosity at a tasting, analogizing (i.e., I love Wine X, which everyone says is similar in style to Wine Y, so I’ll buy Wine Y), or simply good marketing and customer service, I’m realizing I usually choose Wine A over Wine B in part based on these kinds of factors.
And similarly to Barry, W-S and certain other wineries that I no longer buy and drink with frequency have perhaps done some things having nothing to do with what is in the bottle that turned me off to them a bit. Meanwhile, they just aren’t talked about much on WB, and nobody in my current wine drinking circles is in to them.
All of which I’m fine with. I think what I am realizing, however, is that it’s pretty easy to let these narrative factors overwhelm what is in the bottle. This is particularly the case when you mostly buy wine for consumption years in the future. So my practical takeaway is that I need to do a reset every once in awhile, evaluate how I’m spending my money and choosing what to open, and make sure that I don’t ignore wines I used to really like but that just aren’t top of mind anymore for whatever reason.
I’ll admit there is some truth to this. My journey away from New World wines really started in Italy. I adored Barolo from the start when we visited the region several years ago, and I particularly gravitated to the more traditional producers without knowing anything about them. I caught the bug and started branching out all over Italy, again tending to prefer traditional, often quite rustic Italian reds. At the same time lot of the RRV PN and Napa CS I used to like started to taste flabby and spoofy to me. So being a regular reader around here, I naturally started looking to France. And some of my favorite French wines are pretty far along the spectrum away from what I used to enjoy in California. My wife and I probably drink more Chinon than any other red wine. We agreed that our second favorite wine of the night from our tasting was the 2007 Raffault. We’ve also both loved Enderle & Moll’s PN in the past.
But I think for me personally there really might remain a place of honor for well-made moderate climate California Pinot Noir. I just need to get over the idea that I’ve “grown” beyond these wines, or that the same person can’t love both a great RRV PN and an ethereal German PN. And yes, perhaps, that there is no reason to feel guilty even if everyone else thinks that’s crazy.
There are times when I want to enjoy wine for pure sensory pleasure without being analytical or critical. I tend to believe that ripe fruit, low acid, an soft tannins make this more likely. And this might be quite different than a wine that I would choose for long term cellaring.
I’ve cut way back on CA purchases for one reason: mailing lists. I very much like variety–of vintages, producers, regions, etc etc. I also don’t drink that much or often–maybe a bottle or two a week. So I found that I was stockpiling my favorite CA producers’ wines–Rhys, Kutch, D&R, etc.–in volumes way out of proportion to wines I like just as much. So I cut back. And it wasn’t because of quality–new world wines are better than ever–but because I don’t like the mailing list model. I still purchase selectively from American wineries, but less than previously, and I like the balance of my cellar better as a result.
I think there are ‘palate cycles’ we all go through, sometimes our palates fade away from a wine or winery’s style and then, after a ‘palate cleansing interval,’ we may migrate back.
When I was a yoot, I had a friend who was all Cali cab, all the time…I actually got palate burn-out and drifted off cab based wine for several years. Then, after a period of time wandering outside of the Cali cab desert, I started to get my groove back and it’s now back in rotation.
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Another drifty part: I like WS’s array of options. I would prefer 2 bottles of 6 different WS pinots than have 6 bottles each of only 2 wines.
This, well said. Similar story here where my small collection is weighted too much with Cali wines primarily due to mailing lists. Nothing wrong with the wines, just looking for more diversity. I’m hitting local wine stores more than ever to break that mold, and trying to leverage lists just for select wines (e.g. Monte Bello).
Diversity in the cellar is a great thing. Our cravings can shift just like our moods. And the tastes of our guests, spouses, whomever can bring us to drink things for which we don’t usually reach and either reaffirm or shake our preconceptions about wine regions and styles. Personally, focusing on one variety for the moment, I tend to enjoy Oregon pinot noir more than CA pinot, but there are times when I really enjoy the plusher fruit that tends to show in CA pinot. It reminds me to keep buying some of those wines and not go “all in” on a given region.
As Williams Selyem was one of my best barrel accounts before I retired, I might be a little prejudiced. I love the wines.
But I do see the following issues:
1/the wines keep getting more and more expensive…then again, everything else is going up in price too…so there is less disposable income for many. On the other hand, certain professional seems to be upping their rates faster than you can blink your eyes. Of course, the price of Burgundy has skyrocketed and this makes WS and others look good.
2/whereas the winemakers might see a new vineyard coming on as a great thing, perhaps the consumer is thinking, Enough is enough.
3/a brand gets old…a friend of mine in the Cognac business used to say, the minute somebody in a focus group says, Oh yeah…My Dad drinks Old Overcoat…it’s time to start promoting Old Raincoat or whatever
People like to state their preferences in a way that makes them look good. There is the old story about pollsters discovering that the NY Times was the most popular and best read newspaper in NYC, a find not backed up by circulation figures.
There is also what i call the issue of Thorstein Veblen. We create identities for ourselves by the brands we choose. Do I buy a Honda, a BMW or a Buick?? Do I drink jack Daniels or single malt?? Cognac or Armagnac?? Bud Lite or Anchor Steam?? Do I buy my Burgundy from Kermit Lynch or Zachys? Do I drink Burgundy or Russian River Pinot?? The latter question is tricky because if you get used to one style the other seems weird.
On a similar note, I have many wine drinking friends who accumulate tons of wine in their cellars that don’t in the least match what they eat. Many of those are mailing-list types, certainly not all. It wouldn’t matter if they didn’t care about pairings, but they do care! So I often hear them complain that they “don’t have anything to drink” because they have nothing that goes with their meal in that packed EuroCave.
It can be difficult to get to the point of buying the most of what you reach for the most, especially when it’s hard to admit that the best food pairings are rarely big labels.
I feel your pain. Buying wine based on other peoples preferences or the “conventional wisdom” of how my palate would evolve has cost me a lot of money buying what my palate considers mediocre wines.
Williams Selyem is my wife’s favorite wine. We are fortunate to be close by, so we attend the pickup parties twice a year. It could be that the wines are overpriced by a few dollars, but the pickup parties are a such a great jump start to a great day in Healdsburg, that the wines seem like a good deal.
As Jay found out, most of the times you open one, they are special. Just that little bit better than most of the other pinots that I like.
It’s funny, but a lot of the Cellartracker notes I read on these wines begrudgingly admit that the bottle was “better than I would have thought”. Maybe they are comparing them to the Burt years wines. Whatever - if you like any form of pinot from anywhere, you are crazy to dismiss these wines.
I have had a few WS wines which knocked me for a loop, yet a few others (which could have been the same vineyards) which I thought tasted certainly like candy as Scott reflected. One thing I think is missing in the big scheme of things are foods - not only the foods you have with the wine, but the food you had previously in the day. I am one to believe you can taste a previous meal many hours later depending on what you ate - and it can affect how you perceive wines many hours later. I also agree with another post about how at least my palate tends to run in circles (or figure eights) and one day I can not like a wine and a week later it tastes great!
Buying wine based on other peoples preferences or the “conventional wisdom” of how my palate would evolve has cost me a lot of money buying what my palate considers mediocre wines.
That was my uncharitable point. I can’t understand buying wine you don’t like, or denying yourself wine that you actually do like. And it doesn’t take soul searching. It’s something an infant understands when he spits out the broccoli rabe puree.
As Mel points out, “We create identities for ourselves by the brands we choose.” That’s the problem. People need to channel their inner infants.
We’ve had a few bottles together and what I think you’ll take away from our early experiences (and a quick look at my CT) was that I was not enamored with many new world wines. I’ve always left room for some of them…but largely outside of Oregon my preference is more to Europe. Having said all that, I’ve recently found myself drawn back to that style in the past few times. I’ve found myself wanting those experiences. Do I think this will last long…probably not. However, I do think that from time to time you’ll find you want those experiences as you continue to build a cellar. Maybe not…but I’d leave room to buy 3-6 bottles every few years.
My guess is that you’re no longer in the California culture…and that has an impact on your experience. The other thing to think about is who are the people you’re tasting with and what is their level of wine-drinking experiences? My guess is that if you were tasting with the owner of the store in SW Harbor I told you about…he’d probably be agreeing with you as well.
I think if I were to offer you any advice…I’d say take a look at your cellar, how balanced is it based to what you want to drink? I like Champagne with sushi…and randomly just because. So bubbles account for about 10% of what I open and also are about 10% of my cellar. Half of your cellar is from California…do you want to be drinking California wines every other bottle you’re opening? If not…stop buying from California or send some wines off to auction. If what you and your wife said was true…I’d be buying a lot more Champagne than you have, more Burgundy before it’s impossible to afford, some Bordeaux, more 2015 German wines…and just a tad more from each of the smaller special places around Italy and France. Maybe buy a bottle of Jacques Puffery, Chateau Simone, Ganevat, Emilio Pepe, Dal Forno, or Quintarelli just to have in the cellar until you’ve had more of those wines and realize you like them. Think about buying more Gamay…it’s special when you cellar it and a relative bargain.
Seriously? You wrote a freaking book on how you liked a wine you weren’t supposed to like because the round peg isn’t supposed to fit into the square hole. But it fit into all the other square holes too. That throws gasoline and a match on the banket ideas AFWE’s have about domestic wines. But Greg is the one being uncharitable by pointing that out. From here it looks like the stuffing is peeking out of your shirt.
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“What’s this stuff?”
“Some Pinot, supposed to be from California. But Burt didn’t make it”
“Did you try it?”
“I’m not gonna try it you try it!”
“I’m not gonna try it.”
“Let’s get Mikey!”
“Yeah”
“He won’t drink it, he hates everything from California.”
“He likes it! Hey Mikey!”
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}