I think you would agree that’s a bit of an oversimplification. My favourite Knoll and FX Pichler Smargd rieslings have a roundness and sense of restrained ripeness that I rarely find in German GG bottlings.
I would agree with oversimplification, though my knowledge of Austrian wines is scarce. Roundness for sure, but a more restrained ripeness seems more questionable. Also depends on German GG from which region comparison is made with.
One thing that continues to puzzle me when reading discussions on Austrian Riesling is that it’s so often called just that. There seems to be little sense of need or eagerness to diversify between regions. Maybe I haven’t read the right threads or maybe differences are smaller than I imagine?
Of course it’s an oversimplification, but that is about the closest comparison there is.
With respect to Austrian Riesling from the Wachau, there are 2 levels of wines to know and the terms are only applicable to the Wachau. Similar quality wines made in vineyards, no matter how close to the Wachau, cannot use the terms if outside its boundaries.
The first designation is Federspiel. These are your lower priced bone dry wines that are picked from less ripe grapes and/or lower quality sections of the vineyards. Much more mineral than fruit. I don’t typically find these to be a great value from most producers and typically like to drink wines from adjoining regions (e.g., producers Gobelsburger and Brundlmayer) or Germany at the price point, but Alzinger and Domaine Wachau make very nice ones.
The best level of Wachau Riesling is Smaragd. These are the GG of Wachau Riesling. Alzinger, Prager, Knoll, Hirtzberger, and several others make outstanding wines if in varying styles. One of the main points of contention in the Wachau is on the use of grapes with botrytis. Some producers avoid it 100%, some love it 100%, and others dabble with what the vintage gives them. There is plenty to explore including the wines of FX Pichler, who march to their own beat.
Enjoy!
My stock of Austrian Riesling (and Gruner Veltliner) is exclusively from the Wachau, Kremstal and Kamptal. There are more similarities than differences, but the major difference is the larger scale of most Wachau bottlings. I normally prefer Kamptal/Kremstal wines for that reason - the lighter touch. Again, it’s a broad generalization, but no time right now for a more detailed response.
Well, I´ll join in here because I know this producer well, and I´m very impressed.
The style is for fragrant, clean, lively and earlier accessable wines with excellent typicity and minerality, not for power and high alc in exchange for finesse (although they are far from light) … but the wines still are holding very well.
Exellent 2012s and 2013 (and also the Grüner Veltliners are high class)
To Scott:
you´ve already got good advice.
My rec is simply to taste some Austrian, Alsace and German Rieslings - and decide what you like …
Most Austrians are dry (but with RS from as low as 3-4 up to 7-8 gr - so it´s not all the same) …
while many Germans have noticable RS … sometimes very sweet (and with very low alc. resp.) - and this is simply a completely different style.
I haven’t noticed the huge amount of sulphur (or sponti?) that I used to get with JJ Prum when young with either the 2011 or 2012 vintages.
Scott,
As you say, the wines are pretty reasonably priced. So, use this as a chance to play around a bit. In German wines, try Kabinetts, Spatlesen and Auslesen. Try Trocken, Halbtrocken and wines with residual sugar. Try different regions. Try wines at different ages - one can often find German wines with some age without paying much of a premium. Try richer wines from Alsace with residual sugar like Zind Humbrecht vs. dry, steely wines like Trimbach. Try Germany vs. Alsace vs. Austria.
Have fun. It is one of the few places in the wine world where the truly great terroirs and the truly great producers are around at reasonable prices. Don’t pigeonhole yourself too early. Try a bunch of different stuff and have a good time.
But remember to buy Zilliken and Schloss Lieser. They are really on fire these days.
The '11 Prums stink to high heaven of sponti now. Not sure why, but it took a while.
Get a mixed case. Crush wine and spirits has all of these in stock. Something like this:
1 2013 A.J Adam Drohner Hofberger Kabinett $34
1 2012 A.J Adam Drohner Hofberger Spatlese $45
1 2013 Alzinger Hohereck $55
1 2013 Dönnhoff Oberhauser Leistenberg Kabinett $26
1 2013 Immich C.A.I. $21
1 2013 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Spatlese $47
1 2010 Schafer-Frohlich Bockenauer Kabinett $29
1 2013 Zillikin Saarburber Rausch Kabinett $31
1 2012 Weiser-Kunstler Steffensburg Spatlese trocken $34
1 2013 Keller Kirchspeil trocken $75 (gosh these have gotten expensive!)
1 2012 Steinmetz Geierslay sur lie $25
1 2012 Julian Haart Shubertslay Kabinett $37
This list shows plenty of different styles ( maybe a little heavy to MSR) and even an Austrian wine, and you’ll probably get a case discount!
There are others I would like you to try but they don’t have them right now:
Peter Lauer, Ulli Stein.
Emrich schonleber, JJ Prum and Schloss Leiser are in stock and make some super wines. Also they have a bunch of crazy expensive Muller… you might want to try one of the cheaper wines. They are amazing.
Scott, I think they are incredibly hard to compare. It like trying to describe the difference between the “perceptions” of slate vs. gneiss. I mean they both probably taste the same, or at least like the soil they originated, but they have different mind’s eye perceptions. I think the “roundness” adjective is apt in many cases, just add to it , especially in say Pichler, and Alzinger, etc., stretched granite. Many of the great Austrians have a tautness with the roundness of fruit that does not have a counterpart in Germany. Anyway, I think Alzinger’s Hohereck is a great stepping off point when going from Germany to Austria.
I just want to second the sound advice to try a diversity of regions. I tend to like dry Rieslings, and I have more luck with Alsace, Austria, and Australia (yes, gross simplification and there are dry Germans and sweet Alsatians, but you have to start somewhere). Australia is really quite different from the others and usually very well priced if you like the style.
Finger Lakes Dry Riesling such as Ravines, Hermann Wiemer, Forge, Boundary Breaks, Red Newt - all incredibly well made and well priced. They all make a few with have varying degrees of sweetness
Speaking of Italian wine…and matriculating beyond the usual cast of characters,it wouldn’t hurt to try the Vajra Bianco Langhe.
Gonna be tough in Texas - you’ll probably end up doing a lot of business with Austin Wine Merchant.
Gotta start with the Donnhoff Estate [mildly sweet]. You can also try the similarly priced Donnhoff Estate Trocken [“dry”] for comparison purposes.
Halb-Trocken [“half-dry”]: Spreitzer, Shafer-Frohlich, Selbach-Oster
Fully Trocken German “Grosses Gewachs”: I’ve got little experience here, and they’re moderately expensive.
Austrian, Inexpensive: Nigl, Hiedler
Austrian, Mid-Range: name vineyards from FX Pichler and Prager and Hirtzberger
Austrian High End: FX Pichler “M”, FX Pichler “Unendlich”, Hirtzberger Singerriedel, Prager Artist
Other Varietals: German Scheurebe, Austrian Gruner Veltliner
Nigl is inexpensive? Sure for entry level bottlings, but for the stuff that will make an impression, not so much.
As for the Finger Lakes, while I like some of the wines very much, they do not generally hold a candle to Germany, Austria or Alsace.
I’d say the same for Michigan or Niagara. There are a few very nice wines, but it’s not where I’d start.
Taking notes here - thanks for all this as I keep wanting to learn more about Rieslings. The first I had which made an impression was from Tantalus up in BC. Not sure where that would fit in the overall picture but it sure was good. Now ready to start comparing regions and styles - it’s great to have all these suggestions.
If you’re out West, [u]WHWC[/u] has both the 2012 Donnhoff Estate and the Estate Trocken on sale for $17.95.
In the old days, I’d say: Pour yourself 3oz of each, and drink them together, with dinner, every evening, for eight straight days. But given that they’re in screwcap now, you might consider 1.5oz pours over 16 days.
Watching those two styles of Riesling oxidize, side-by-side, and seeing how they pair with the various foods which you eat during the week, would be about as good an introduction to Riesling as most people could hope to get for less than $40.
Agreed