Piemonte questions

Travel, Wine Tourism, and Restaurants Forum
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What’s you aim(s) for Piemonte? Wine, food, scenery, culture, and is the wine Barolo/Barbaresco or are you open to other options? One reason for asking, is a recent tasting re-affirmed I’d become too focused on B&B and highlighted I really like many other wines of the region.
http://wine-pages.com/community/threads/piemonte-off-piste-offline-popolo-16-feb-2017.3746/#post-58332 (I hope the link isn’t a problem for Todd)

We recently spent 5 days in Torino (a wonderful city - perhaps my favourite city of all), so I could certainly give advice, post my updated cribsheet. Ditto I could offer thoughts on Ghemme, Cuneo, Ivrea, Aosta & Bubbio, however for many, the only focus will be a homage to the wines of the Langhe (and I very much recognise why this is).

Have you taken Italian trains before? I think they are wonderful, and booking in advance (easy for tourists to do) can reveal some stupidly cheap fares. A picnic for the Venezia-Torino leg is definitely worth considering, perhaps finding a decent Gastronomia in Venezia to cover all bases (including wine). It can be useful to travel from noon, to utilise the normal closing period in Italy, so that when you arrive in Torino, the place is open. Sundays/Mondays can be a problem for places being open, so if you’re arriving in Torino then, pay special attention to what is open (if Monday just go to Tre Galline and raid the very fairly priced but huge wine list)

regards
Ian

22

Speaking of Turin/Turino… did you know the aperitif was born there? I had no clue, or cared. At about 4:30 one afternoon, we were tired and a little thirsty. We were on a main street, and when we got to a corner, we saw what looked like a very garish (definitely Italian) and circa 1790’s France looking place. We expected to see Napolean. Lots of reds and gold colors. What sucked me in was a full plate of bite-sized finger sandwiches on the bar. That was a magnet that pulled us, ok me, right in.

We’re looking at the menu and I’m confused. One page shows a drink list ie 4 euro for a beer, and the next page shows the beer for 6 euros. What’s that about?? The waiter goes on to explain that the higher priced beer includes a plate of these sandwiches for each of us. HELLO. I’m all in. When we were finished, he brought out another plate! I said no thanks when he wanted to bring a 3rd plate. Now he clears the table, and magically, a plate of mini pastries appear.

It’s a good thing we had dinner reservations for 9:00. We could have called it a night after our aperitifs. That was some QPR. [wink.gif]

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Ian, I have no aim, just want to explore and experience the region a bit. I have some small experience with Barolo/Barbaresco, not a ton, and they’re not wines I particularly collect. So I may try to arrange a visit, but that won’t be our emphasis. If you say Torino is worth some time, may book a couple nights there. What other location in the area would you recommend? I think we’d prefer to be “in town” somewhere, rather than out in the country at an agro. Thanks also for the useful train info.

Dan, I’ll keep an eye out!

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For simplicity, staying in Torino would be good and then maybe having a day trip (there is a weekend direct train service to Alba for the truffle fair weekends). Alternatively if you like truffles & lots of stuff going on / lots of people in a historic town, then Alba itself is worth considering - but book early, as the accommodation does get booked up significantly in this period. Processions, flag throwing, fantastic markets, even a donkey race parodying Asti’s Palio.

For Torino you’ll easily be able to indulge in truffles at that time of year, but also roast chestnuts and the porcini are still around along with other tasty mushrooms.

The city is unusual in Italy for being mostly laid out in a grid system, even around the older parts of the city. The upside is it’s very easy to navigate. The easiest way to find the ‘centre’ of any city in Italy is to look for the ‘ZTL’ zone, the area in which cars are excluded unless they have a permit. Torino’s is quite large, but in general the central 'square is formed by Corso Regina Margherita to the North, Stazione Porta Susa to the West, the Po River to the East and Corso Vittorio Emanuele II / Stazione Porta Nuova to the South. I expect the train goes to Porta Nuova, but check. Being a short distance from this will help if taking the train onto France.

If looking for an apartment, but with some local ‘support’, then the place we were in earlier this week is a strong recommendation, though their website I’m told is badly translated (we went through booking.com out of laziness). It’s called Loger Confort and it’s on via XX Settembre, between corso Matteotti and via San Quintino. Spacious, well fitted out, spotlessly clean (daily cleaning included) and within 150 metres of the single Metro line, plenty of bus/tram routes and Stazione Porta Nuova. There is also a Tourist info kiosk directly facing Porta Nuova which is handy. I’ve just done a write up of the apartment on SlowEurope travel website. Northern Italy - Torino - Loger Confort 1 bed + lounge/kitchen diner | Slow Europe Travel Forums

Alternatively, if you want somewhere closer to a hotel, but with a little more space and a little less of the usual hotel services, then Townhouse 70 at #70 via XX Settembre was good. The location is a bus or taxi ride from Porta Nuova if you have heavy bags (10-15 mins walkable otherwise), but it puts you very near Piazza Castello / via Garibaldi.

Then again plenty of hotels around if you prefer.

I’ve also updated my well-used cribsheet for Torino here (see 4th post) https://www.sloweurope.com/community/threads/small-scale-producers-in-piemonte-italy.2006/
Which has far too many wonderful food shops, but also wine shops, wine bars, restaurants, gelaterie etc. etc.

In terms of cutting down on wasted travel time, I really like the idea of Venice - Torino - somewhere in eastern France - Paris. It lets the train take most of the strain, but you could hire a car for that location in France, or even hire a car there and do a mini road trip from there to Paris via Burgundy. French toll roads are wonderfully light on traffic, especially Sundays when most trucks are banned, plus they are very well maintained (unlike Italy). Taking the train from Torino allows you to make up the world’s best ever picnic for the journey, as the food shopping is exceptional.

Hope this helps

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Ian, really appreciate your help, this is great. I hadn’t really planned to spend a lot of time in Torino, but you may be convincing me. We loved Florence, but it is 1/3 the size of Torino, which is preferable to me. Ideally, we would spend a couple days in Torino, then get out into the country and spend a couple more days there. Where would you pick? Alba? Barolo? Or maybe base in Torino and just do a day trip or two, like we did from Florence to Siena?

I am also leaning heavily toward training from Torino into more southern France, maybe Lyon, Dijon, or somewhere farther north. We have been to Burgundy a few times, and frankly it’s hard to resist just going back there, but I’m going to try to make myself go somewhere else. Alsace is the current thinking, but getting there is a little more painful (particularly since I haven’t been able to find a car rental that isn’t really punitive for dropping at a location different than pickup - that didn’t used to be the case). I’m exploring train schedules to try and find something workable.

Given that we won’t spend a large number of days in Torino, I’ll probably lean toward a hotel rather than apartment. What part of town would you recommend? Closer to the station would be good, but that doesn’t have to be the biggest factor.

I’ve got your PDF, I assume the stars are your top recs. Do you have anything similar for Venice?

Cheers

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Hi Alan
If you want a real event, something to remember, then definitely Alba if it coincides with the truffle festival (7th Oct - 26th Nov, but usually front-ended into the 1st 2-3 weekends). It’s a very big event now, arguably too big for me, but what is there is very memorable. Like I said book early and ideally stay in Alba or at least in walking distance as the roads often end in gridlock for the more popular events. Or do as we did once and choose a place on a bus route (ours was in Corneliano d’Alba)

Alba is much smaller than Firenze/Florence, but does have some very good food shops. Restaurants I’ve struggled with there, but others have had more success. Definitely reserve a table if you want to eat there whilst the events are on.

Here’s a link to the 2016 programme for an idea of what’s likely to be on when.
http://www.fieradeltartufo.org/2016/it/programma/2016-10-03/weekend-1 (this is the 1st weekend, juts hit the relevant buttons for later weekends).

Barolo? I’m not a fan of the village, finding it becoming increasingly touristy. I’d always choose one of the other Barolo villages as a base (Monforte I liked a lot, La Morra a little touristy, Serralunga d’Alba and Castiglione Falletto both good, and Verduno a lovely little charmer). If you want a pool, we stayed at a very good apartment in Santa Vittoria d’Alba, 10 mins drive from Verduno (Agriturismo Valdispinso) with a train line into Alba (& Bra) and restaurants in walking distance, though one involved a slope too steep for us to consider.

The Barbaresco villages of Treiso and Neive also worth a look. Lots of accommodation, but definitely book early for the time you’ll be there as Barbaresco will no doubt take a lot of overspill for the truffle festival (Barolo less so, we’ve never had a problem)

For a night or two in Torino, plenty of hotels between Stazione Porta Nuova and (say) Piazza San Carlo. This is really the ideal area for someone staying for a short period, as you can walk there and once there, are pretty much in the centre of the scene.

Personally I’d try to make a call between either Torino OR Alba OR one of the wine villages as the base, not trying to split 3-4 days into 2 bases. No car required (or desirable) in Torino, Alba generally needs a car to get there, and essential for the wine villages as there is no bus service beyond some school buses.

It used to be a two hour bus trip from Torino to Alba, but at that time of year Trenitalia lay on direct trains to the truffle festival, so that’s more of an option.

The stars for Torino are places we’ve:

  • been to at least once (often more) AND
  • will go back again ourselves
    so strong recommendations (always IMO)

Some we’ve not yet been to, or have been to and didn’t like/dislike. If we went and didn’t like it, it’s not on the list.

I’ve not been to Venice, but IIRC Peter Moy has posted some wonderful info on the place, so check those threads and also drop him a PM for specifics.

For train options between Torino and France, Thello are the provider I believe, so check their site for the stops, but also try ‘the man in seat 61’ website, a very good resource for train travel in Europe.

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p.s. enjoying helping (or at least I hope I’m helping). When someone requests info and is actively engaged in the responses, it’s a joy on this side of the conversation [basic-smile.gif]

28

La Morra is a great town.

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Thanks Ian, definitely helpful, let me digest your recs. Just talked to a local friend who knows the area very well. He suggested Caluso as their favorite village, though I’m not sure if that’s to stay. Barry, will look at La Morra.

We’ll certainly drive around and visit several of the places mentioned, just to get a feel for future returns.

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Hi Alan
I did look at Caluso as an option a few years ago, didn’t stay there but it did appeal. FWIW we spent a day in nearby Ivrea a week ago, an OK place, but one very good restaurant ‘La Mugnaia’. Definitely worth a detour if you do end up in Caluso.

Definitely worth sitting back and digesting all the info, getting a feel for what appeals and which option(s) have most that appeal. Then think how the logistics will be. That should put you in a good place for a decision.

regards
Ian

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Little bit of progress. 3 nights in Venice, then we’ll train to Torino, rent a car, and stay somewhere in Piemonte.

I need votes on where to stay. Which town? We will probably do a winery visit or two, but that’s not the main focus, mainly just being a tourist. I’ve been looking at several B&Bs or small hotels, mostly in the countryside, but being in a town is certainly easier for meals. Scenery, attractiveness and interest of the town. I’ve been reading through several Piemonte threads here, seems like maybe Alba is the best bet?

One thing I’m thinking about is that we’ll probably train from Torino to Lyon for the next leg. The only TGV to Lyon seems to be at 7:30am, so driving into Torino, returning car, and getting to station will be a bit painful. I’m considering doing that the day before and staying in Torino the last night. That would mean just two nights in Piemonte. Maybe it makes sense to just stay in Torino, and drive out to the villages?

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We stayed at Cascina Reine which is just outside Alba on the road to Barbaresco. Very nice b&b.
http://www.villalameridianaalba.it/villa%20la%20meridiana%20inglese.htm

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I’m leaning towards Torino, plus a day trip to Alba / Barbaresco as being the best bet.

The Barolo/Barbaresco villages won’t occupy you for long, all great to spend an hour or two either side of a meal, or to be based in, but for me the real interest is in the wineries and the walking.

If you want to avoid hiring a car you could take the new hourly SFM4 service from Torino Lingotto (loads of connections from Porta Susa or Porta Nuova in central Torino). It takes 1:11 to get to Alba which is very good (the bus used to be about 2 hours).

If you don’t mind and early start, this could get you early enough to grab a station taxi to Barbaresco (not far at all), a couple of winery visits (factor in ~ 1.5 hours for each, and plan for modest walking time between them). Then either arrange the return taxi visit back (probably of the order of €10-12 each way - it’s not far at all), or lunch in Barbaresco before taking taxi back to Alba. Either way, aim to be in Alba around 3:30 onwards as the town ‘re-opens’ after lunch. It’s a nice place to walk around with the main streets pedestrianised. Some very good wine and food shops, plus lots of historic architecture, churches etc. Take the train back to Torino when tired (last trains 7.07pm or 8.07pm). It might be a tiring day, but gets you into wine country and not a bad ‘taster’ of whether you’d like something more substantial on a return visit.

Which wineries? I’d use google maps to choose a nice walking distance, anything from Produttori and Albino Rocca (15 mins) to others that might be a 5 min walk. If eating in Barbaresco, it probably makes sense to have Produttori as the one before lunch, as there are a number of options in the village (that said I think Treiso is much better for eating, but less convenient for walking to wineries).

With the logistics you’re fitting around, I think this makes much more sense, especially as you don’t want to hit multiple wineries.

regards
Ian

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p.s. Alba is a very easy place to pick up a truffle or two. We have bought in Torino, but from a restaurant where they know us from previous visits so it felt (and was) a safe and fair transaction.

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OK, egg on my face. Somehow I got Sunday into my head for departing, but that’s our arrival day to Torino. Car rental is closed on Sunday in Macon, which is why I had looked at training to Lyon. Nevermind. On Wednesday when we leave, there’s a good TGV option to Macon departing around 10am, pick up car in Macon, be in Beaune late afternoon. Aside: when talking about the itinerary with my wife, she said “how can we not go to Burgundy, it’s our favorite place”, so I fixed that. Lucky guy, I am.

So apologies to Ian for his earlier response, which is still useful, but the idea of staying outside of Torino now becomes more viable. Could still follow Ian’s Torino recs, but if we don’t what town would be a more interesting base?

What will traffic be like driving into Torino on a Wednesday morning in early November? Is that a factor?

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Hi Alan
If only wanting to do a couple of winery visits, then unless the walking really appeals, I will try and talk you out of staying in the Barbaresco/Barolo villages. They are charming, but there won’t be that much in the way of other tourist stuff. Keep the option of that day trip idea, as it means only hiring a car in Macon (not Piemonte as well), saving on coast but also potentially hassle as well.

In terms of places that can keep you occupied longer, then Asti & Alba would be the two, the former larger but apart from its big weekly market, never quite charmed us as Alba has. Neither is vast, and compared to Torino there is much less to see. Bra is rather surprisingly quite humdrum. Acqui Terme is alright, worthy of a day trip if it fitted with plans, but as a base you could still hit the wine areas of Canelli (Asti), Loazzolo (Moscato) and the wider regions of Monferrato / Asti. The non-wine appeal here is the thermal treatments, but these generally require booking.

The car does open up driving, but I’m not really convinced the Barolo/Barbaresco villages are that great as destinations…if the wine or walking are of peripheral interest. I reckon the driving idea with a little wine interest might be better focused on Lake Orta / Gattinara. Gattinara is very easy to drive into, and not that far from Lake Orta (30 mins by car to the southern shore). The car could be hired in Milano instead of Torino. Valsesia is apparently very rewarding to head northwards up as well. There is a major religious site at Varallo http://www.sacromontedivarallo.org/wp/

Apologies if this gives you more headaches.

regards
Ian

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Ian, continue to appreciate the advice. Keep in mind that we americans love old stuff, and we don’t have a lot of it here. In California, about the oldest thing around is the first McDonald’s :wink: So just being in an ancient village is very cool for some of us. I’ve come over to UK dozens of times, most often to Oxford, and never tire of heading up and just cruising around Cotswold villages.

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Hi Alan
Coming back to one of the earlier thoughts then, if you can base in Alba for the truffle festival activities, then you get a historical town, with events that celebrate that history (e.g. on 23rd Oct 2018 they had the flag procession, and flag throwing is a wonderful joy to watch in the places that do it in Italy). In addition the truffle fair runs on weekends well into November, not just truffles but a very fine range of typically artisan food. From there it’s an easy day trip out to any of the wine villages by car, or Barbaresco by taxi.

Do note that Alba gets very busy in October, and accommodation does get booked up. If you find yourself utterly compromised by that, it’s definitely feasible to stay outside (with a car) and come in for the festival. Parking isn’t that expensive, so last time we went to the truffle festival we set off from Serralunga relatively early, getting to the car park by Alba station not long after 8am, with there being barely 20 cars parked in a large car park. The town was quiet, but by 9:30am it was busy and by 11am it was heaving (this was a Sunday). I think we were out of there by 1pm.

Places like Verduno & Treiso really won’t keep you (in terms of sightseeing) more than half an hour. La Morra, Barbaresco & Serralunga d’Alba maybe an hour. They aren’t big at all. Castiglione Falletto and Barolo might have greater appeal - everyone loves a historic castle! Even though they are close to each other, I fear you’ll spend more time driving than enjoying. The roads are quite winding so it can be a little disorientating. The views are fine though.

regards
Ian

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We just came back from Italy a few weeks ago. Had a fantastic time. Absolutely loved our time in Piemonte. Just gorgeous everywhere you look.

I am not sure how you would sight see without a car though. As pointed out above, no one village really has enough to do for a multi night stay but you can absolutely see multiple villages in a couple of days. We stayed in Sinio but visited Barolo, La Morra, Castiglione Falletto, Alba and did a mix of sightseeing, castles, wine tastings and just driving around and admiring the views of the hillsides.

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Rich, thanks. That’s pretty much our plan as well, just wondering if there is a better place to stay to do that.