More that a Poll- Explain Why You Buy Your Top Five Producers?

WINE TALK
41

Pepiere and Rougeard are both from the Loire…?

Gonon powerful? Maybe the VV. The St. Joe is probably among the lightest expression of N Rhone I know (Trollat is probably lighter but I’ve only had that once).

42

This is a fun thread – interesting diversity and I like hearing people’s wine stories. There’s more to wine than just how the stuff tastes (though I like that part too!).

My top 6 producers make up just over a quarter of my cellar. Overall though my collection is pretty diverse, with about 25% red Burgundy, and 14% each for California pinot, California cab/blends, Piedmont nebbiolo and red Bordeaux. I was surprised to see how evenly those regions are represented in my cellar. A bigger overall problem is not enough whites – another 14% fairly neatly split between Burgundy and California. My 2016 and 2017 buying strategy will attempt to fix that!

Anyway, top 6:

Littorai - Makes wonderful chardonnays and pinots, probably my consistent number one or two for both varietals in California. Ted Lemon is a great guy, amazingly knowledgeable. I really enjoy the pickup parties, and joining the club caused my collection to explode. Still, they’re able to coax so much out of some of the best vineyards in northern California, so I’m happy to have them. The Heintz is an annual must-buy.

Rhys - Wonderful people and a huge commitment to quality in every vintage. I have both their pinots and chardonnays but especially love the pinots. Like Littorai these are also more reasonably priced than some of my favored European producers, but the prices have been creeping up.

Bruno Giacosa - A handful of late '90s/early 00’s Giacosa Barolos opened up my eyes to the amazing wine coming out of Piedmont. The last few years I’ve been on a concerted hunt to backfill, especially '96-'04. I’d love to acquire earlier vintages but the prices are just too prohibitive. Even the ‘normale’ bottling I find to be deeply satisfying with 10+ years on it.

Robert Groffier - I stumbled across a little cache of '95-'97 Groffier Clos de Beze and was hooked. I’ve been steadily building a nice assortment for about 5 years and backfill when I can.

Fourrier - Similar story with 2002 Goulots and have been buying some every year back to '05. Especially love the GCVV and Combe aux Moines, but have never been disappointed. Getting really worried about being priced out of the new vintages though.

Arnoux - Lachaux - Beautiful wines, especially the Suchots and Chaumes. A wonderful tasting there earlier this year strongly reinforced my love for this producer, and it really nails quality for me. The Pinot Fin (Bourgogne Rouge) is an excellent entry level wine as well. I haven’t tried any California Pinot that can touch this at $25.

43

I am pretty spread out, but my top 10 (~30% of cellar) neatly fall in to two categories:

California wineries where I know (knew) the winemaker, have visited the winery, love the wines and feel they are age worthy: Rhys, Arcadian, Scherrer, Clos Pepe, Inman, Smith Madrone

My favorite, somewhat reasonably priced, producers in Bordeaux and Burgundy: Montrose, Pichon Baron, La Pousse d’or, Lafarge

11 is Valentini Trebbiano, mainly because all my bottles are still too young to fully strut their stuff!

44

Patricia Green; St. Innocent; Produttori; Tablas Creek are my top 4…then a much wider variety. Love all these wineries because they are not “over the top” in style and in this environment of ever escalating prices, they are …gasp…affordable!

I like to reward producers who make great wines and provide me the opportunity to drink them without needing to raid my 401K [thumbs-up.gif]

45

You didn’t know that?

46

See the post to which I was responding.

47

I’ve only been buying for like 3 years so it’s kind of weird since once you get out of the top 3 no one producer has more than 10 bottles in our cellar but here goes.

Syncline - First wine club we joined, great reliable Rhone style wines from Columbia Gorge, good club discount, affordable, their basic Rhone blend is one of our cellar defenders when they have their January 30% off for members sale and their estate Syrah is out of this world
Trisaetum - belong to the wine club, they make excellent and affordable WV rieslings in a few different styles, we stocked up hard one time when they had a deal on one at Costco and the next week we went and joined the wine club, really great stuff
Fidelitas - Our go-to “serious” big reds, they average ~$45/bottle with our discount so we don’t feel too bad cracking them open when we want something nicer, always reliably high-quality and are delicious young or laid down for a decade or more, we buy a mixed case per vintage and will continue to do so going forward
K Vintners/Charles Smith - love the lighter style he’s adopted in the last couple of years, got a decent deal on a bunch so we stocked up a bit on his Rhone style stuff
DeLille - kind of a fluke, we tasted at the tasting room and loved it so we joined the wine club, got 2 shipments and decided to drop off since the discount only brings the wine down to retail and we were more interested in other things, we also were given a bottle of their excellent white bordeaux blend at a party and we came across an aged example randomly when we were in Napa on vacation, so it’s been somewhat opportunistic, not really buying any more so they should drop off the top five soon I would assume

48

No, we won’t!

49

You’re not arguing. You’re just contradicting!!! :slight_smile:

50

Hmm, I don’t know about that. I drink very catholically and have a very wide range of wines in my cellar. My cellar is 38.8% French, 38.4% American, 10.4% Italian, 3.7% German, 3.4% Spanish, with Austria and Portugal modestly over the 1% threshold and 10 other countries collectively adding another 3% or so. But my buying habits are totally different for different regions.

For example I have 210 different French producers, with no single one accounting for more than 1.3% of my total; and 86 different Italian producers, none of whom accounts for more than 0.6% of my total. Yet whereas I have fewer US producers (79), they account for the 1st, 2d, 3d, and 5th spots in my cellar (Carlisle, Saxum, Tablas Creek, and Rivers-Marie). And it’s a German producer (Donnhoff) in #4, even though I have a grand total of only 12 different German producers in my cellar. At the same time, I have more than twice as many bottles of AOC Margaux as I do of Saxum (my #2), and more bottles of Barolo than I do of Tablas Creek (my #3), for example.

This is essentially explained by the fact that I am not as curious about domestic wines as I am about French and Italian wines. Like I said, I have a wide-ranging palate, and feel no shame in enjoying a bold zin on a fairly regular basis, for example. But when I want to scratch that itch, there are only a handful of producers I reach for: Carlisle, Ridge, occasionally a Radio-Coteau or Turley. And I tend to accumulate most of my wines – all of five of the US producers in my top 10 – by joining and sticking to mailing lists, which are a common way to buy US wines.

By contrast, with France and Italy, there are so many great producers to discover and follow (I don’t mean to impugn US or other wineries by this), and mailing lists are not an option. So I tend to sample more broadly. Plus I wasn’t lucky enough to be buying Truchot 25 years ago, which means that in regions like Burgundy I tend to gravitate more towards value producers.

For some reason in Germany, however, I have tended mostly to latch on a few great producers (Donnhoff most of all, plus Fritz Haag, Zilliken) and pay less attention to the rest. Maybe this is because German riesling is like US zin for me – it’s an itch I do like to scratch, but not something I want to pursue singlemindedly, which seems almost to be necessary if one is to be really serious about German wines. (If CT is to be believed, Markus Molitor made 92 different wines in 2013 alone!).

Whatever the region, I look first and foremost for good value, with some kind of personal connection being not unimportant where applicable. Carlisle is #1 in my cellar due to its namesake giving me a great barrel tasting 13 years ago (plus maintaining fair pricing ever since and making wines both I and non-wino friends/family like to drink), just like Trimbach predominates among my Alsatians due to a very warm reception there even longer ago. My holdings of Margaux increased significantly after I made that my daughter’s middle name. And so forth.

Anyway, here’s my top 5 + next 5:

Carlisle
Saxum
Tablas Creek
Donnhoff
Rivers-Marie

Beaucastel
d’Issan
Rauzan-Segla
Jadot
Drouhin-Laroze

The first Italians don’t show up until #24 and #25 – Produttori (which I accept I need to buy a lot more of) and La Ca’Nova (great QPR Barbarescos). [scratch.gif]

51

Donnhoff - I drink the wines, and my wife loves the wines. Dry, sweet, dessert - all of them.

Selbach-Oster - ditto

J. J. Prum - ditto

Edmunds St. John - I drink the wines. Every time I open a bottle I am thrilled to drink it. Steve’s wines are a foundation of my cellar and I will buy them until he stops making them.

Rhys - I have faith. I have enjoyed some of the wines I have opened, but not all, but I see huge potential. That being said, I now have enough, probably too much. I have to stop.

52

My top 5 producers are roughly 15% of my cellar.

Chandon des Briailles – I just how they get such purity and concentration without being extracted. Much as I love Savigny, I don’t have much of theirs. I don’t buy that much of it – and I what I do buy, I drink on the earlier side, to keep me from drinking the Ile-de-V and Cortons too young. I have a ton of their Ile-des-Vergelesses.

Pepiere – I just never get tired of these wines, either the basic bottling or the Briords or the Clisson. They drink well young and old and anywhere in between. It’s a just an issue of how forward you want the acidity to be. They’re great for sipping on the patio in the sun, in the winter with oysters, and with a wide variety of food.

Huet – The combination of richness and acidity that these have is so lovely. And they age forever, so no need to worry about them getting away from you.

Roilette – The wine that sold me on Beaujolais. The first one I bought in quantity – and as I’m paring back my buying, one of the few i still buy. I have a half case or more of the 2000 Tardive remaining, and I’m in no hurry to drink them.

and for 5th place, it’s a tie between G.D. Vajra and Louis-Claude Desvignes.

53

Howard,
I do have more than 10 bottles from outside of the US. But not many more than that. A few burgundy, a Brunello or two, a couple of Barolo and Sangiovese, some Sauternes, and a couple from Spain. When I add in some Champagne, the number grows bit higher.

I wasn’t trying to argue with anyone. Perhaps I buy much more from my top 10-15 producers and others spread their purchases. But many have very small allocations so it’s also more likely that I just save some for more special occasions. I am going to try to branch out a bit - by the end of next year I may even have a quantity of Riesling or more Burgundy, and the determining factor could be changing up where I buy wine outside of winery-direct which comprises 90% of my purchases.

The point of the post was to find out why people bought what they had the most of and not to argue about what people bought.

54

A slightly different perspective from Australia…

Mount Pleasant (Hunter Valley, Australia) - An old school traditional producer who has really found their groove again recently. With 10-15+ years in the cellar, both the Semillon and Shiraz turn into something quite sublime.

Meerea Park (Hunter Valley, Australia) - When I first started buying in the 2003 vintage, they offered amazing QPR, however they have stumbled over recent vintages and I have hit the pause button, probably forever.

Tyrrell’s (Hunter Valley, Australia) - The leading traditional producer in the Hunter Valley, closely followed by Mount Pleasant. They have a vast range of average quaffers, but the top end single vineyard wines are world class.

Marsh Estate (Hunter Valley, Australia) - An under the radar producer who sells only direct from the cellar door, offers wines of interest and good value, plus the wine maker is a real character. Unfortunately he recently sold the estate, so I probably wont continue to purchase.

Benevelli (Barolo, Italy) - Small production Barolo and Langhe Nebbiolo which offer great value for money by Barolo standards. Over time, I am sure that other Barbaresco and Barolo producers will ascend up into the top 5 as well

55

Reynvaan Family Vineyards: Great wine, better people.
Selbach-Oster: From the halbtrocken through the Rotlay, consistently high quality, shockingly good value.
Chateau Montelena: Mostly from two vintages, anniversary year and daughter’s birth year. These will hold for a while, right?
Williams Selyem: Mailing list comes, I order a few, once in a while I drink one.
Domaine du Vieux Telegraphe: I have been a fan for a long time. Some wines I bought in the mid-90s that I didn’t stick with for one reason (tastes changed) or another (pricing). This is one I stuck with.

Top 5 wines = 22.7% of cellar
Top 5 Regions:
California 17.4%
Mosel 13.1 %
Burgundy 12.1%
Washington 11.2%
Bordeaux 9.4%
Rhone 8.7%

Nothing else over 5%, although Loire will soon eclipse that number.

56

1. Chateau Musar: To me this is a singular wine…as it, there is no wine out there that can compare. It’s unique in a way that many wines are not…and I love how “true” to itself it is. Plus…it’s often long-living. A huge plus in the cellar for me.
2. Weingut Keller: There is no producer in Germany that offers wines of this caliber and consistency. For me, this is the top of the mountain.
3. Roilette: This like others have noted is THE Beaujolais to age…and I love how constant and true to place it is. The fair price tag keeps me buying it year-in and year-out. You can’t go wrong…even in challenging vintages.
4. Thomas: The one mailing list I can’t see myself dropping anytime soon. I love the honesty and integrity in the wines. While the 2014 was a shock and more ripe than I expected…I still feel like it’s honest and accurately reflects the conditions of the vintage from the highest standards possible. Simply put…I love these wines.
5. Fratelli Monchiero: Well, they’re super nice, I had some great memories and will enjoy them for years to come. Factor in that these Baroli are traditionally styled, reserved, and in my wheelhouse…and it’s easy to love them at their price-point.

57

This is a bit of tricky question…

I can do a “top 5” holding list in Cellar Tracker. That yields a list based upon what I haven’t consumed. It doesn’t factor what I have consumed. I’m not sure that changes my answer for the top…looking at my consumption history it appears to be a non-factor, so…

  1. Ridge: Monte Bello is a reference standard wine. I buy with confidence. I wait. I can now enjoy the fruits of almost 20 years of that faith. The result is a large body of wine. Their field blends and zinfandels are fantastic too. I <3 Ridge.

  2. Domaine Drouhin Oregon. These age well. I love the style. They are often good young too. My wife’s favorite Chardonnay in the world is the Arthur. Enough said.

  3. Rhys. As Bueker said, faith. Good story, good initial impressions. Pot committed. Enjoying it so far.

  4. Domaine de la Romanee Conti. Because I can. Because I get an allocation at “fair retail” which means that it is below market and I could resell if I had to get those dollars back. Because I can’t quite afford to drink it all the time so it accumulates.

  5. Evesham Wood: I’ve always loved Russ Raney’s wines. All of my holdings are his. This is no knock on the new regime. I’ve just not kept up with purchasing and am enjoying the back stock.

Ridge is just more than 10% of my cellar. Everyone else is single digits. I have 296 producers represented in my cellar. Variety is the spice of life. Long live the long tail.

58

I don’t often look at my cellar this way, I guess because I buy more broadly than deeply. My top 5 thus mostly represent the wines that I am cellaring for the longer term.

Huet: Duh.
Cameron: A bunch of the AVA wines, and I love Abbey Ridge fruit from most producers.
Eyrie: The definition of WV longevity. Plenty of Gris in there as I have been fortunate to taste some stellar aged bottles. Club members too.
Selbach-Oster: Great QPR and longevity. And Johannes is a great guy. And we have a great local importer.
Christoffel Jr (tie): Like S-O, great QPR and locally imported.
L. Aubry Fils (tie): Grower Champagne with all allowed varieties, and that’s my daughter’s name. No brainer!

59

I’ve been storing wine for only about 5-6 years total. I love Chardonnay and Pinot but not the gloppy stuff. I like White and Red Burgundy but I have poor access living in Texas, not enough experience to purchase in mass, and have also had my share of premox to cause me purchasing hesitation.

  1. Rhys - Great quality Chard and Pinot
  2. Copain - Pinot and Syrah from their wine club. (I like the wines but need to bail on the club)
  3. Ceritas - Chard and Pinot (good stuff)
  4. Williams Selyem - Good pinot but too many different vineyard selections - not really a fan of their Chards, especially the unoaked.
  5. Sojourn - Solid Chard, Pinot, Cabernet at decent prices. Very friendly and reliable.

My first full throttle cab producer is Realm at no. 7. I have 157 different producers in my cellar. Lately I seem to be looking mostly for Vintage Champagne and Italians (Piedmonte and Tuscany).

60

Mine are bound to change as my cellar is not very big and I really enjoy drinking different stuff all the time. But just for the fun of it:

Domaine de la Pépière - dirt cheap (like 7-9 € in France for Briords and Les Gras Moutons) and I am an acid fiend. I have been buying these for near-term drinking but now I am also looking to see how the 2015 Briords is going to age.

P. Dubreuil-Fontaine Père & Fils - I have visited a couple of times and I find their wines to be throughly enjoyable. The two P-V 1er Cru whites Clos Berthet and Sous Frétille are superb buys.

Pierre Gimonnet - the best value producer in Côte des Blancs? Right now I cannot come up with anyone else. Perhaps my favorite wines for fresh seafood. I am not a fan of the entry level wine but above that everything is very solid, including the rosé.

François Chidaine - Top quality Chenin. Very notable differences between their many cuvées, which is very interesting to me.

Tenuta San Leonardo - Great alternative to traditional Bordeaux as these come around earlier. I also like the second wine Terre di San Leonardo which is an awesome daily drinker.