More that a Poll- Explain Why You Buy Your Top Five Producers?

[DougS]

@Bruce Rudman

Ok, so I had a brain fart and didn’t say European - the point was proven by later posts as well - most here have cellars dominated by European wines. And I say most as clearly some have California wines in the mix.

No, it wasn’t. A lot of US producers have been mentioned. On the board in general, there are lots of posts about US wines. I’m surprised that some people continue to buy into this fallacy.

[Matt_Fleming]

@Mark Golodetz

Interesting question. Would add a sub question: how long have you been collecting. Your answers will be very different according to when people started, as the economics of wine really changed in the early 2000s. I have been buying wine since 1985, so had access to every great wine at relatively low prices. God, I wish I had bought more then.

Indeed. But you can also take that a step further. The wine I bought in 1990 was significantly different than what I bought in 2000 (and after), and that is largely a function of the internet. In terms of availability, pricing and information, nothing has been the same since.

[Michael_Martin]

Jaffurs
Best US QPR Syrahs going. Rich, balanced Santa Barbara SVD’s that taste good young and taste great old. All for usually around $45 ish or less.
Bedrock
Unique old vine field blends paying homage to California’s wine heritage. Not afraid to experiment. May be the best Cali winemaker today just based on breadth of work.
Carlisle
Best domestic Zin producer. Great QPR’s in most cases.
Saxum
Big, bold and expensive, but worth every penny.

There is a mish mash of dozens of other producers after that. We’ll keep it to my top four.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Bruce Rudman

Ok, so I had a brain fart and didn’t say European - the point was proven by later posts as well - most here have cellars dominated by European wines. And I say most as clearly some have California wines in the mix.

What percentage of your cellar is from outside where you live - in other words, outside California?

[Howard_Cooper]

@Doug Schulman

@Bruce Rudman

Ok, so I had a brain fart and didn’t say European - the point was proven by later posts as well - most here have cellars dominated by European wines. And I say most as clearly some have California wines in the mix.

No, it wasn’t. A lot of US producers have been mentioned. On the board in general, there are lots of posts about US wines. I’m surprised that some people continue to buy into this fallacy.

I agree. I have wines in my cellar from France, Italy, Germany and California, among other places. I bet most of the complainers have 90% of their wines from California or at least from the west coast. They cannot see beyond their noses and their comfort zones to try anything else.

[Mark_Golodetz]

@Howard Cooper

@Mark Golodetz

Interesting question. Would add a sub question: how long have you been collecting. Your answers will be very different according to when people started, as the economics of wine really changed in the early 2000s. I have been buying wine since 1985, so had access to every great wine at relatively low prices. God, I wish I had bought more then.

Top Bruno Giacosa: I bought most of my Giacosas prior to 2000, not before they had been discovered, as they were then one of Piedmont’s top two reds. But before the current swathe of new wine lovers wanting the very best found it, and demand quadrupled the price. Grateful I bought early, but I am selling some of the pricier red labels. as I find many of the white labels very satisfying.

Henri Bonneau Celestins. Mostly 2004, but a few others thrown in. Love the producer, had an opportunity to buy a large parcel and grabbed it.

Jadot: I think Howard nailed it earlier. good value for money, very solid seldom brilliant although 1996 was a benchmark year for them and I bought heavily.


Haut Brion and La Mission: 4 and 5 in my cellar. For me the most terroir driven Bordeaux.

Mark,

A lot of these are producers you say you are not buying much from anymore. Who are you buying a lot from the last few years? I have found that the producers I have purchased the most from in 2016 are:

Dublere
Rossignol-Trapet
PYCM
Zilliken
Hudelot-Noellat
Schloss Lieser

Not buying that much now.

I bought Tremblay, but when prices went way up I stopped. Generally I am now getting premier cru Chablis to drink young, buy to fill gaps for tastings and also house wines, and am drinking my older cellared wines. I also the really fun and unusual, wines such as a cache of 1989/1990 Madirans.
The only wine I tend to buy every year is Dujac, which will overtake La Mission when I get my 2014s.

Again, age really comes into it. I should have bought more 2009 and 2010 Bordeaux, but they will be ready when I am 80+.

[Markus_S]

@Doug Schulman

@Bruce Rudman

Ok, so I had a brain fart and didn’t say European - the point was proven by later posts as well - most here have cellars dominated by European wines. And I say most as clearly some have California wines in the mix.

No, it wasn’t. A lot of US producers have been mentioned. On the board in general, there are lots of posts about US wines. I’m surprised that some people continue to buy into this fallacy.

People believe what they want to believe.

[Markus_S]

@Bruce Rudman

Rhys: I am not sure why my purchases outweigh consumption. …

Have the same problem. I think it’s because I simple don’t drink that much pinot noir, and they are at a price point which makes them ‘special’ wines. That said, it’s great that they provide the chance to get half-bottles.

I don’t really have a ‘Top-5’ list. There are a tier of producers I buy from, some consistently and every year I can, but they might not make up the ‘top-5’ billing.
For instance, Lapierre and Gonon I try to get nearly every vintage I can, but sometimes things get sold out, sometimes I don’t have the cash to participate, sometimes I never get the offers ‘secret list’. Some wines I used to buy consistently are now outside my comfort zone or budget, so are not going to be represented going forward.

[Dennis_Atick]

@Howard Cooper

Truchot -.

I hate you.

[Alan_Rath]

I don’t think I can narrow it down to just 5. Just looking through my inventory list these are the ones I have a lot of (relatively). Many other producers, but in smaller quantities, because (as Greg says) wines I’d love to have more of are expensive and harder to find. But I’d trade cellars with Jeb, no problem

Allemand
Alzinger
Copain
Henri Boillot
Bouchard
Faiveley
Fevre
Huet
Lagier Meredith
Peay
Rhys
Ridge Monte Bello
Tempier
Trimbach

[Bruce_Rudman]

@Doug Schulman

@Bruce Rudman

Ok, so I had a brain fart and didn’t say European - the point was proven by later posts as well - most here have cellars dominated by European wines. And I say most as clearly some have California wines in the mix.

No, it wasn’t. A lot of US producers have been mentioned. On the board in general, there are lots of posts about US wines. I’m surprised that some people continue to buy into this fallacy.

I agree there are lots of posts of US wines. You missed my point or did not understand it. When I made the point (and I was talking about this very imperfect poll), there were more than 15 European wines, compared to five California wines, that comprised the top five producers in the respondents’ cellars. Even through all of the posts, the European producers outnumber the US producers by more than 4:1, and again the post is supposed to be about what comprises the top five producers in the cellar. And when I say dominate, my top six producers comprise roughly 390 bottles (about 50%) of my cellar. Am I to presume that most people have such diverse cellars that their top producers do not comprise at least a significant proportion of their collection - or at least give a view of what the rest of their cellar composition may look like? I would be fairly certain that those whose top five producers by volume are European have a relatively small percentage of US wines, and conversely, those whose top five producers by volume are Californian, have few Europeans (as a percentage).

[Bob_Hughes]

Well, I think the latter part of your last statement is certainly true - folks who have all-Californian top 5’s don’t tend to buy anything else in volume - and you are a great example of that. In your 800+ bottle collection, how many non-California wines? 10? Less?

Back to the topic - my top five producers are Produttori, Felsina, Brovia, Giacomo Conterno and Patricia Green, and they comprise 21% of my cellar. I like Italian wines, but they also tend to distort the statistics because Nebbiolo-based wines are by definition long-aging - for example, the average vintage of my Produttori wines is 2003, and the average vintage of the Conterno’s is 1999.

So how did PGC sneak in there - that’s definitely the influence of the Board (and Rich Trimpi ).

[Jason_T]

After 30-ish posts in this thread I’m not sure there’s many conclusions that can be drawn beyond:

1. People who initially posted have a preference for European wines (but those people represent like .1% of the people posting on WB)
2. We will argue about anything.

[Markus_S]

@Bruce Rudman

… Am I to presume that most people have such diverse cellars that their top producers do not comprise at least a significant proportion of their collection - or at least give a view of what the rest of their cellar composition may look like?

You can presume all you want and you would probably be wrong.

[Jeff_Vaughan]

@Bob Hughes

So how did PGC sneak in there - that’s definitely the influence of the Board (and Rich Trimpi ).

Bob, I didn’t see that one coming!

[Bob_Hughes]

Yeah, I was surprised myself. In full disclosure, places 6 through 9 are all Italian winemakers, so PGC is my only non-Italian wine in my top nine holdings. And their positioning is certainly “aided & abetted” by my purchases of the Berserker’s Cuvee release (although I do own quite a few of their other wines as well).

[Howard_Cooper]

@Mark Golodetz

@Howard Cooper

@Mark Golodetz

Interesting question. Would add a sub question: how long have you been collecting. Your answers will be very different according to when people started, as the economics of wine really changed in the early 2000s. I have been buying wine since 1985, so had access to every great wine at relatively low prices. God, I wish I had bought more then.

Top Bruno Giacosa: I bought most of my Giacosas prior to 2000, not before they had been discovered, as they were then one of Piedmont’s top two reds. But before the current swathe of new wine lovers wanting the very best found it, and demand quadrupled the price. Grateful I bought early, but I am selling some of the pricier red labels. as I find many of the white labels very satisfying.

Henri Bonneau Celestins. Mostly 2004, but a few others thrown in. Love the producer, had an opportunity to buy a large parcel and grabbed it.

Jadot: I think Howard nailed it earlier. good value for money, very solid seldom brilliant although 1996 was a benchmark year for them and I bought heavily.


Haut Brion and La Mission: 4 and 5 in my cellar. For me the most terroir driven Bordeaux.

Mark,

A lot of these are producers you say you are not buying much from anymore. Who are you buying a lot from the last few years? I have found that the producers I have purchased the most from in 2016 are:

Dublere
Rossignol-Trapet
PYCM
Zilliken
Hudelot-Noellat
Schloss Lieser

Not buying that much now.

I bought Tremblay, but when prices went way up I stopped. Generally I am now getting premier cru Chablis to drink young, buy to fill gaps for tastings and also house wines, and am drinking my older cellared wines. I also the really fun and unusual, wines such as a cache of 1989/1990 Madirans.
The only wine I tend to buy every year is Dujac, which will overtake La Mission when I get my 2014s.

Again, age really comes into it. I should have bought more 2009 and 2010 Bordeaux, but they will be ready when I am 80+.

Understand the issue. I did not buy any 2009 or 2010 Bordeaux for that reason (although I did buy a bit of 2014 (Ducru) and 2015 (1/2 bottles that hopefully will be ready to drink younger). I have tried a bit to backfill with 2001s and 2005s.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Dennis Atick

@Howard Cooper

Truchot -.

I hate you.

Falls in the category of trust yourself, not winewriters.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Bob Hughes

Well, I think the latter part of your last statement is certainly true - folks who have all-Californian top 5’s don’t tend to buy anything else in volume - and you are a great example of that. In your 800+ bottle collection, how many non-California wines? 10? Less?

Back to the topic - my top five producers are Produttori, Felsina, Brovia, Giacomo Conterno and Patricia Green, and they comprise 21% of my cellar. I like Italian wines, but they also tend to distort the statistics because Nebbiolo-based wines are by definition long-aging - for example, the average vintage of my Produttori wines is 2003, and the average vintage of the Conterno’s is 1999.

So how did PGC sneak in there - that’s definitely the influence of the Board (and Rich Trimpi ).

It is funny, but my top five comprise almost the same percentage as yours do - 21.2%. I think some people just get on a few mailing lists, are happy drinking the same wine over and over again and are not that curious. There really are a lot of wonderful wines out there from all over the world if one looks for them. I would think most people who like California Cabernet, Syrah or Zin would love Produttori for example, and would save a fortune buying that.

I have about 100 bottles of US wines in my cellar, over half of which are either Ridge (8th overall in my cellar) or Chateau Montelena (14th).

I am not sure why some people are bothered so much by others buying European wines. Let everyone drink what they like.

[Howard_Cooper]

@J. Singleton

This is pretty short and sweet for me:

Gonon - Love the meaty/pepper/olive notes off of this wine. It never disappoints and I like being able to buy the St. Joseph to stash while drinking the Les Iles Feray young. Plus, I can find both for good pricing compared to the market.

Pepiere - Hard to find a better value white than the Clos de Briords and I enjoy the acidity that comes with these laser whites. Clisson and 4 are also winners. There’s something for everyone with Pepiere.

Foillard - I love Beaujolais and I think Foillard is just such a consistent winner. I also have a lot of Metras, but there is more bottle variation compared to Foillard, IMO. Also enjoy the different levels from Corcelette, Fleurie, Cote du Py, and the 3.14.

Jouan - I’m no Burgundy expert, but I find these wines accessible young, affordable, and simply delicious. In a world with $150 village reds, I’ll gladly turn to these wines that deliver as much joy to me for half to a third of the price.

Clos Rougeard - Best Loire cab franc, period. I splurge for these and feel great when I can find a deal. Although that’s no small task.

Now this is an eclectic list. Five different regions. Totally different wines. I mean, I think of Jouan as a very elegant producer (how did you get to Jouan - usually someone like him comes later in Burg buying) and then Gonon makes a much more powerful wine.