How Important Is Tertiary Development To You?

WINE TALK
21

Monie you are an idiot and know even less about wine than Galloni does. And stop trying to bring Galloni into every conversation. Even if you don’t mention his name, we know who you are talking about.

This message was approved by Bill Klapp. Well, not really. And if he was here he wouldn’t approve of it because it is not long enough.

I find that I like wine in most all of it’s varied stages. But there is nothing quite like a mature wine.

22

Are we voting about Rose or Burgundy? Port or Bordeaux? Zinfandel or Rioja? Can there be one answer for all wines. Not for me. I am not avoiding an answer when I say it depends on so many things.

23

This is another example of continued trolling by the OP. We don’t have a troll reporting mechanism, so mods- please consider this a report. This guy continues to troll this forum with repeated similar topics which lead nowhere & have limited if any participation from the OP.

24

What makes you think that?

‘Just my feeble attempt at jocularity. I ran a thread not too long ago asking if the tariff for the 2010 was worthwhile, in the the sense of it being a revelatory wine. Needless to say, the usual suspects took the bait.’ Moine from Blake’s Super Tuscan thread

25

But to answer your thread, it’s everything. I taste a ton of young wines and just don’t find the same enjoyment as a wine that is at it’s peak, yes it’s rare but catching a wine at it’s epitome is what most wine agers are looking for or at least should be looking for.

26

I agree with the last reply.
Primary aromas and notes are coming from the grapes …
secondary aromas are developed or added in the cellar (oak, malo, sulphur, lees etc.)
tertiary are result of bottle aging (leaves, underwood, mushrooms, petrol …)

For me tertiary aromas are desirable … otherwise it´s only grape-juice, not interesting wine …

27

Yes

The answer is that old chestnut of ‘it depends’. Some foods or settings call for a primary profile, unencumbered by oak, lees influence, malo or more challenging tertiary aromas. However chuck some truffle or strong meat flavours in the dish and I’m thinking of something with a good chunk of age on it.

Then there are grapes & wine styles. Riesling rarely sees oak (or at least new toasty oak), as few think it helps. Barbera laps the oak up and often gets 1st dibs on the new oak, as it works very well for many.

Different wines react differently to ageing - Rioja is a good example of a wine often being very different in youth to maturity, whereas others (say Barossa Shiraz or Muscadet) can hold well for a decade or two, but can often be at their best on release.

Then we have something like Chardonnay, where this household enjoys both the crisp Chablis style and the (over)worked butterballs. Depends on the mood / food.

regards
Ian

28

You may select > more than > 1 option

fify

I don’t think it is a troll poll but I do think it is flawed.

29



[rofl.gif]

30

I always figured that “Primary” flavors were fruit characteristics. (think youthful, fruit forward wines). “Secondary” flavors were typically varietal characteristics such as black pepper, garrigue, flowers, fresh tobacco, so on and so forth. These flavors are present from the beginning and typically last for the viable life of the wine and are what we associate “complexity” or “transparency” with. Lastly “Tertiary” were flavors that directly result from maturity (but not from a wine losing it’s “baby fat”). These could be sous bois, cigar wrapper and similar characteristics. However, they were inherent to the variety necessarily like markers for a varietal, but were flavors that only came from age.

As for my preference, I like wines that show a little of each. I do like some fruit characteristics in the wine to be the canvas, but I want all the other elements painted on top.

31

Hm …
but fruit comes from grapes, and grapes are a varietal … so this is kind of identical …
(and oak, lees etc. is in between secondary and tertiary …kind of 2.5 … ??? [scratch.gif] )

32

Well, I wouldn’t disagree that fruit characteristics are representative of the variety, however I wouldn’t necessarily think of them as being strong markers for the variety on their own. Even if they were when we talk about varietal character we think of them as certain non-fruit characteristics. You could probably figure that oak and lees flavor as being secondary characteristics in that they’re non-fruit flavors, but more artificial.

If someone were to say that a wine was very “primary” I wouldn’t expect others to ask: “So did it taste very strongly of black pepper and wild sage?” Nor would I expect to respond to a statement about a wine having lots of secondary characteristics with “Interesting. So how many fruit characteristics were you able to pick out?”

33

Add me to the “it depends” contingent. The idea that a certain maturity level, or region, or grape, or winemaking style, etc. is always necessarily better than anything else is a bizarre concept to me. I just can’t identify with entire idea. I’m not sure what we gain from over thinking and over classifying wine into neat little boxes. Why enjoy wine when you can hyper-categorize it instead?

34

It never occurred to me that there would be those who would assume that this inquiry was meant to suggest that simple little wines clearly made for short termed consumption should be held, in submission to some preconceived idealism. And to the contrary, the very asking of the question about preferences when it comes to aging, should infer that there is no suggestion of “better” in this matter.

35

I thought more people would go with answer #4.

Obviously the “correct” response for a “true oenophile.”

I live on the sharp and dangerous edge by holding wine, looking for that fully developed moment, risking life, limb, cork, and screw trying to catch that lightning in a bottle.

Here’s to the other two people who went with #4!

36

Look at your own poll. To wit: “1. I like them young and fruity.”

Like what young and fruity? All wines? Rachel and others simply pointed out that the poll implies (not infers) that the categories are limiting because in fact, it depends on many factors.

37

I didn’t see the poll as an attempt to determine which is “better,” just an attempt to gauge preferences and get a conversation going. Though I guess some find it difficult to conceive of a conversation about different preferences without it becoming an “I’m right/you’re wrong” debate.

While I’m also in the “it depends” category, I’ll cast my lot with Anton and the few others who are willing to take a risk for that magical blossoming of tertiary magic in the bottle. If you’re lucky, you can capture that without the fruit being all gone.

38

for most red wines, I like a good balance of primary fruit and tertiary development. of course, my “good balance” one person’s “painfully young” and also another person’s “over the hill and dead”, so …

39

It never occurred to me that there would be those who would assume that when I said that sometimes I like wines younger that they would surmise that I only meant “simple little wines clearly made for short termed consumption.” There are times when I like age worthy wines when they’re younger and not at full maturity. There are times when I like them older and fully mature. I can enjoy the same wine equally for different reasons at different levels of maturity. Hence why I can’t really answer the question.

40

Fascinating! Is this a completely random choice based on mood, or is there some methodology involved?