Dry Farming

[Craig_G]

@Todd Hamina

For some reason Old World, blue chip wines have been dry farmed for a long, long time.

Maybe because it rains in the summer there?

I don’t have any problem if someone chooses to fill their cellar with only dry-farmed wines, but don’t expect most of us to care.

[Todd_Hamina]

Thanks, now I know who to address when searching for the majority’s voice. This is a real time saver for me.

[Merrill_Lindquist]

Why does all the “discussion” have to become so extreme, so polarized? How can people be so absolute in all this stuff? C’mon, guys, let’s foster discussion, not run each other out of town. No point, there.

Of course that is just my opinion.

[Todd_Hamina]

It’s always going to be about balance. And I believe that’s a black and white situation. Grapes can be planted anywhere, this doesn’t mean, nor guarantee, success.

[Craig_G]

@Todd Hamina

Thanks, now I know who to address when searching for the majority’s voice. This is a real time saver for me.

Well played.

But seriously, most people have no idea which wines are dry-farmed, and there is no apparent demand to change that. Do you really believe many people care? This seems very low on the intervention scale.

[Peter_Cargasacchi]

@Todd Hamina

It’s always going to be about balance. And I believe that’s a black and white situation. Grapes can be planted anywhere, this doesn’t mean, nor guarantee, success.

Exactly. It’s about balance. But given we all can use canopy management and viticultural techniques, how can you achieve greater balance when the water supplied to the vine is a random act vs a controlled act? You cannot maintain a controlled water deficit in areas where it rains and you have deep soils with high water holding capacity. Historically entire vintages have been comprised by excess rainfall, that were “dry farmed.”

In arid climates, you don’t have random applications of water during the growing season and you can establish, measure and control water deficits.

You can call growing grapes in areas that receive rainfall during the growing season dry farming, even if the vjnes are actually getting twice as much water as a controlled deficit irrigated vineyard.

[Todd_Hamina]

I think there’s truth and there’s masquerade. I’m only interested in the truth. If that upsets people, so be it.

[Todd_Hamina]

@Peter Cargasacchi

@Todd Hamina

It’s always going to be about balance. And I believe that’s a black and white situation. Grapes can be planted anywhere, this doesn’t mean, nor guarantee, success.

Exactly. It’s about balance. But given we all can use canopy management and viticultural techniques, how can you achieve greater balance when the water supplied to the vine is a random act vs a controlled act? You cannot maintain a controlled water deficit in areas where it rains and you have deep soils with high water holding capacity. Historically entire vintages have been comprised by excess rainfall, that were “dry farmed.”

In arid climates, you don’t have random applications of water during the growing season and you can establish, measure and control water deficits.

You can call growing grapes in areas that receive rainfall during the growing season dry farming, even if the vjnes are actually getting twice as much water as a controlled deficit irrigated vineyard.

My belief is that we show the vintage. Hot is hot and cold is cold, wet is wet, but show the vintage. Hamstring yourself to Mother Nature and then start playing the game.

[Peter_Cargasacchi]

@Todd Hamina

@Peter Cargasacchi

@Todd Hamina

It’s always going to be about balance. And I believe that’s a black and white situation. Grapes can be planted anywhere, this doesn’t mean, nor guarantee, success.

Exactly. It’s about balance. But given we all can use canopy management and viticultural techniques, how can you achieve greater balance when the water supplied to the vine is a random act vs a controlled act? You cannot maintain a controlled water deficit in areas where it rains and you have deep soils with high water holding capacity. Historically entire vintages have been comprised by excess rainfall, that were “dry farmed.”

In arid climates, you don’t have random applications of water during the growing season and you can establish, measure and control water deficits.

You can call growing grapes in areas that receive rainfall during the growing season dry farming, even if the vjnes are actually getting twice as much water as a controlled deficit irrigated vineyard.

My belief is that we show the vintage. Hot is hot and cold is cold, wet is wet, but show the vintage. Hamstring yourself to Mother Nature and then start playing the game.

I’m not sure why I’d want to “hamstring” myself when I’m trying to make the best quality wine possible. But if you want to “hamstring” yourself, go for it.

[Todd_Hamina]

Do you control Mother Nature?

[Al_Osterheld]

Do you SO2?

-Al

[Todd_Hamina]

Do you obfuscate poor vineyard location with cellar practice?

There will be many dead vineyards through lack of water if drought continues in warm climates. I can SO2 all I want (which is minimal).

[Al_Osterheld]

“Hamstring yourself to Mother Nature and then start playing the game.”. Mother Nature works in both the vineyard and the cellar.

Personally, I think irrigation should be minimized (as you apparently feel about SO2). But, I don’t think it’s an absolute, black and white thing. It’s good to have the roots go deep. If they get a lot of water through rain, not sure they go any deeper than if that get it through rare irrigation.

-Al

[Beau_Carufel]

It’s nice here in Oregon, especially the Willamette Valley, because we (usually) get the right amount of rain (usually) around the right time of year. For those of us buying grapes elsewhere (E. Washington, S. Oregon), I suppose we’ll just have to stop making wine.

[David_Bu3ker]

There are certainly people out there who care if the wines they buy are dry farmed. It’s likely there are not enough who care to make it a market game changer. It certainly makes for a nice story, but once the story has been told, the wine must be sold. If it tastes good it will sell. If only the story is good then good luck.

[TomHill]

From the latest SommJournal on the 2014 growing season:

At HanzellVnyds…the extreme drought conditions forced the wnry to do something they have never done in the past, deep irrigations
(6 gal per vine) once in Dec/Jan/Feb, in order to prevent the roots from drying out and to keep them viable.

Given the track record of the Hanzell Chard/Pinot; it seems so sad that JamesZellerbach picked the wrong location to plant his vnyd some
60 yrs ago. So that’s it…no more Hanzell goes into my cellar.

Tom

[Gary_Schulte]

Todd - It appears that you source grapes from both dry farmed(Deux Vert) and irrigated(Zenith) vineyards do you find a difference in the quality of the grapes from the different farming techniques?

[Todd_Hamina]

I had Zenith turn off the water in 09, as well as having them not till the vineyard as well.

The grapevine is a lazy plant. If you allow the vines to rely on surface water then the tap root has no reason to go deep searching for water. You will find strong arguement from those believing in the terroir of their sites to encourage such penetrating activity.


Here’s an exercise we can do together: Let’s remember this thread, watch if the drought in California continues, see if vineyards run out of water, find out how many can survive without water and see which ones die.

Then we can collectively say wrong spot, or right spot. I think it seems simple enough, who’s in?

[Bob_Hunnicutt]

Composting and minimal irrigation will be The Next Big Thing if we don’t get some rain this winter

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

@Todd Hamina

The grapevine is a lazy plant. If you allow the vines to rely on surface water then the tap root has no reason to go deep searching for water.

Seems like a bit of a metaphor for life in general, eh?

Seriously, though, I’m glad the linked article prompted a bit of a discussion. Since it was in the LA Times, it wasn’t written solely to interest wine geeks/viticulturists, but a more general audience.

Bruce