Coravin demo

[Neal.Mollen]

@Al Osterheld

Some thoughts from a science perspective:

Oxygen dissolves rapidly in wine, but diffuses away from the surface layer rather slowly. However, turbulence caused by pouring provides an effective mechanism to quickly mix the oxygen that has been dissolved, allowing more to be dissolved at the surface. So, if you pour out part of the bottle and then perserve with argon or the Private Reserve gas (not all inert gas, btw), the remaining wine may have absorbed a significant amount of oxygen. The amount depends on the details of how you poured the wine, whether you left the bottle out pouring successive glasses throughout a meal before preserving, etc.

Systems like Private Reserve have the problem that it’s difficult to expel all of the air in the remaining head space. The popular notion is that a heavier, inert gas will blanket the wine and keep oxygen away from it. That’s actually not correct. Initially, a heavier gas will flow to the bottom of the head space. But, as it equilibrates, the inert gas and the oxygen will distribute throughout the head space in a nearly constant concentration. In the absence of convection effects, a heavier gas is very slightly more concentrated at the bottom, but the scale length for a noticeable change in the concentration is five to ten kilometers, so the concentration is essentially constant over height of a wine bottle.

One of the other concerns is that partially emptying a bottle causes volatile compounds to come out of the wine. This is most commonly mentioned with respect to the vacuvin system. But, each separate compound that can come out of solution sets up it’s own equilibrium between the amount in the solution and in the head space, independent of the other components in the head space gas. So, it really doesn’t matter whether you evacuate the head space or fill it with argon, the volatiles will still come out of the wine.

-Al

(Pretending I understood all that) Al, it sounds like you are skeptical of this device. Am I reading you correctly?

[Bruce_G]

@Al Osterheld

Some thoughts from a science perspective:

Oxygen dissolves rapidly in wine, but diffuses away from the surface layer rather slowly. However, turbulence caused by pouring provides an effective mechanism to quickly mix the oxygen that has been dissolved, allowing more to be dissolved at the surface. So, if you pour out part of the bottle and then perserve with argon or the Private Reserve gas (not all inert gas, btw), the remaining wine may have absorbed a significant amount of oxygen.

Al:

With the new system under discussion there is apparently minimal oxygen ingress as the bottle is not opened. Rather, the capsule and cork are punctured with a hollow needle, and then the amount of wine poured is displaced by cannistered argon gas.
I don’t know if the mechanics allows for zero introduction of oxygen into the wine (which would be necessary if the wine is to stay as if unopened), but it looks like it will be extremely small.

[Al_Osterheld]

My comments were intended to be relevant to consideration of various methods (since there were posts mentioning other methods, including a link to the wired.com review).

Am I skeptical of the coravin? I’m sure it has its place. There was a question whether the argon would shut down the normal aging of the wine after a glass had been extracted. I don’t think that it would. Any oxygen that gets past the cork and into the bottle will come in contact with the wine and eventually create oxidation products (as mentioned, the argon will not blanket the wine, no matter the orientation of the bottle).

Will the bottle be perfectly preserved by the coravin method for a couple years even after 75-80% of the wine has been removed? I wouldn’t count on it. First, any oxygen that gets into the bottle is now oxidizing much less wine. Second, to the degree that volatile compounds are being lost from the wine, that’s become a much larger effect. By analogy, think about preserving a partial bottle of champagne with with one of those stoppers. If you drink a single glass, the bubbles are preserved pretty well. Drink 75% of the bottle, it’s noticeably less bubbly the next day.

The comment about oxygen being absorbed during pouring was intended to be relevant to other methods of preservation (vacuvin, Private Reserve, etc.).

One method that was mentioned on another board is to decant half the wine into a half bottle, add a bit of SO2, and then cork (the SO2 combines with oxidation products). This is an interesting idea, but I’ve heard of anyone else who has tried this method (and most of us don’t have SO2 solutions sitting around at home).

-Al

[Nick_Ryan]

50 cents a glass is more than twice the price of the canisters for the WineSaverPro system, the device I’ve been using for years now (20 cents per glass). The Coravin’s advantage is that there is no possibility for any new oxygen to make it into the bottle, whereas the WineSaverPro at least requires you to pop the cork and quickly insert a spout, so some air will mix into the headspace area. It’s not a lot, but it seems to be enough to affect - even kill - some delicate wines (but still far better than any alternative I’ve tried).

A good practice might be to use the Coravin only for ultra-expensive or delicate wines, while using something cheaper but almost as effective (like the WineSaverPro) for everything else.

[gwagner]

In theory, I would enjoy this product tremendously. I signed up for the waiting list, and would like to know what final pricing is.

Here’s a different take. I was speaking with a friend this weekend and he was curious what it would do to the secondary market. His point was that with the ability to sample older bottles, will an increase of corked/flawed bottles become more present in the marketplace? I’m interested to see more videos and photos of the capsules and corks after using coravin.

[david_dickerson]

By inverting the bottle you are replacing wine only with argon not any of the air. At least, that is the way that I understand it. On the wait list also. I have a 1955 Spanna (birth year) waiting for its arrival. Opened one on mine and the wines 55th birthday. Whoa what a wine! I plan on recreating that moment over and over. {:>)

[Peter_Tryba]

@gwagner

In theory, I would enjoy this product tremendously. I signed up for the waiting list, and would like to know what final pricing is.

Here’s a different take. I was speaking with a friend this weekend and he was curious what it would do to the secondary market. His point was that with the ability to sample older bottles, will an increase of corked/flawed bottles become more present in the marketplace? I’m interested to see more videos and photos of the capsules and corks after using coravin.

The capsule is noticeably pierced and would be extremely difficult to explain away.

However, I see this from another angle as a retailer: use the Coravin to determine if your recently purchased wines are flawed and immediately return them to the retailer upon discovery. Why wait 20 years to open your bottle of First Growth to be disappointed by a faulty closure when you can detect cork taint at the time of purchase? The retailer will simply take the return and pass it back up the supply chain.

[Todd_Tucker]

I got to muck around with one of these at EMP a couple weeks ago. In theory it looks pretty cool, and I will buy one. That said, you have to invert the bottle to get the wine out, so for older blles with sediment this may be an issue. It took several button pops-cycles to get a regular sized pour. The wines I like to drink old may not work so hot with this inversion, but I think it will be a great way to drink a glass of a great young-mid aged wine that has not thrown a lot of sediment and put it back to try later on rather than killing a whole bottle to check the evolution curve. I am a buyer, but the inversion aspect will limit its practicality with older wines I suspect (unless I was doing it wrong- and I’ve been wrong before)

Also 200 dollars is the target price from what I was told.

Pretty cheap if you are making a decision on opening something special.

[Peter_Tryba]

Should be available for purchase today. Like, right now, or very, very soon after I finish typing this message.

[gwagner]

anybody buying? 299.00?

[Scot_H]

@gwagner

anybody buying? 299.00?

If I buy it now, any idea if there is going to be some promo code in my email box in 24 hours?

[CFu]

lord almighty those capsules are expensive.

[Scot_H]

@Charlie Fu

lord almighty those capsules are expensive.

$0.63 a glass based on 15 pours per capsule (buying 6 capsules at once).

Re: the review on Wired. Apparently one of the “tired” aspects to the Coravin is that it “does not work with…screwcaps.”

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/06/wine-preserve/?pid=3375&viewall=true

[scott_c]

@Scot Hasselman

@gwagner

anybody buying? 299.00?

If I buy it now, any idea if there is going to be some promo code in my email box in 24 hours?

No guarantees, but if you buy it before 8/1, there’s a code that gets you 3 free capsules.

[Scot_H]

@scott c l a f f e e

@Scot Hasselman

@gwagner

anybody buying? 299.00?

If I buy it now, any idea if there is going to be some promo code in my email box in 24 hours?

No guarantees, but if you buy it before 8/1, there’s a code that gets you 3 free capsules.

Yep, got the email - just my luck as I bought it an hour ago. I’ll email them…

[Jim_Clary]

I can’t get the order system to work. Has an error code. Also noticed by someone else on Bob’s board.

[Nick_Ryan]

@Jim Clary

I can’t get the order system to work. Has an error code. Also noticed by someone else on Bob’s board.

Yup, it’s broken. No response to emails so I guess they flipped the switch to make the site live, without testing, then took off for martinis to celebrate their success…

Per-bottle cost is expensive but this will be invaluable when opening aged wines, which mostly don’t survive overnight, even in my argon WineSaverPro.

[Hunter_Landrum]

I also got the error code, so I called the customer service number. They told me they are aware of the issue and are working to resolve it.

[Jim_Clary]

[ResizeableImage=][/ResizeableImage]eBob had the answer. First, create your account, then place your order. Worked perfectly.

[Hunter_Landrum]

I was just able to place my order as well.