I’m thinking about buying older wine from Zachy’s Auction. Of course, no one knows the full provenance of an on line wine from 1968. The description says bottom neck. I understand that is the level of the wine. When those of you that buy old wine do so what do you look for? I see torn label, soiled label protruding cork etc. I’m starting small, only one bottle and don’t plan to spend too much so I don’t get burned.
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Starting small is a good way to go. Other tips:
- Have a very clear view of the max you want to pay and don’t go over it. I tended to aim for 50-75% of equivalent retail.
- Generally ignore estimates, as your own research will be better. Occasionally a really crap estimate might be useful as it influences those that don’t know/research, but auction houses also do use ‘come and get me’ estimates to ensure there are lots of bids.
- Buyer beware. The more you can check in person, the better, including level, colour (depth and shade) and any worrying signs e.g. light induced fading of the label. My eyes got opened to some dubious practices, by a friend who used to buy/sell at auction.
- Levels. Bottom neck would be very good for a wine of that age. I’d not stress about high or top shoulder.
- The more you price up the better chance of finding a bargain. However as with any purchase, only bid on stuff you actually want
- Factor in buyer’s premium (often very high c. 20% of hammer price over here these days), plus any costs with shipping it or collecting it.
Auctions can be a lot of fun, and a super way to get old wine, and sometimes very genuine bargains. In person is always interesting.
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I rarely buy old wine, as opposed to nurturing it, so I am perhaps the wrong person to answer this, but:
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Expect to be disappointed, and hope to be thrilled. After so many years, the vagaries of aging that particular bottle can have as much to do with what you drink as the qualities of what originally went in the bottle. If you don’t think you can just shrug and pour it down the drain, think again about the enterprise.
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Lots of the world made shit wine in 1968, and fewer still made wine that might last for 57 years. Port? Barolo? Pretty narrow range of choices.
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Unless you are trying to impress someone, ignore label conditions. In fact, look for torn labels. If you can get a discount, and you aren’t looking to preen about your purchase, this is great news.
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Stains are another thing. If a stain comes from an adjacent bottle that broke, no big deal. If it came from a leaky cork or heat damage, well, big deal. Examine (as best you can) for those things.
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Have a back up available when you open because of #1.
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I’m a gambler. I buy a lot of old wine. I’ve been elated more often than disappointed, but with wine, I’m tolerant of tertiary smells and flavors others might find off putting. That said, I do open some dead wines, and have back-ups when opening them. I also treat them gently; stand them up a while, decant right before serving, sometimes Andouize.
Back to the OP’s question…
For me, signs of current or past seepage are a hard “no”
Bottom neck fill is fine for a wine from the sixties. For me, the color is more predictive than the fill, so I try to get them to forward me good photos.
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I’m with Warren, having bought lots of older wine. To his ‘things to look out for’ I’d add:
- Protruding corks. Most commonly means that bottle has been cooked/exposed to significant heat.
- Pushed corks. Could mean many (bad) things but most commonly it’s been frozen.
Combine these conditions with ANY signs of seepage, and I never buy bottles with these flaws.
Fill level is pretty hard to evaluate, because so much depends on the age of the bottle and many other storage factors. But I very rarely buy bottles with fill levels below the top of the shoulder.
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Pretty much everything has been covered. I love wines with partially destroyed labels, as it suggests high humidity in the cellar, and levels tend to be high.
Also color is a really good indicator. Ask for a photograph of the bottle slightly tipped.
As for seepage, do your research. Some Burgundy producers deliberately overfill their bottles.
I buy a lot of older wine at online auctions. I expect the auction house to make a statement about provenance. If they aren’t, then I stay away because that means it would be a detriment to selling instead of an enhancement.
As an example with WIneBid, they will say if it’s the original owner. If they don’t say that, but instead say something about it coming from “temperature and humidity controlled storage”, then I have to go by the photos to see if the current owner received it in good condition and then I bid accordingly.
Generally, I stay away from wine stored in a passive cellar, whether or not it’s noted as “underground”. My basement is underground, but I wouldn’t want wine stored in it for 10-15 years. That’s why I have wine units.
No pics on Zachys, I’m not sure if they’d take a pic or not for me. Its a Lynch Bages from 1968. Opening bid is $60. I thought I’d bid $60 and no more. Many of you have the ability to discern all the different smells/flavors of a wine when you drink it. I used to be disappointed that I couldn’t do that. However, I have found that it’s actually a blessing since really good wine taste awesome and average ones still taste really good.
I had a 2014 Lynch Bages from a restaurant and thought it was great. I was surprised to find that wasn’t a highly rated year. However, 1968 LB isn’t even rated on Wine Searcher. I guess that should tell me something. Vivino has 1968 at 4.0 and 2014 at 3.9. I use mostly Wine Searchers ratings but I have to rely on something since I really don’t have any wine knowledgeable friends except one. His knowledge is way over my head.
1968 was a very poor vintage in bdx. That Lynch Bages was never a good wine, and is surely an unpleasant experience now. That 2014 would be a much better purchase now and for the future.
Thank you for letting me know 1968 was a bad year. I will stay away from that one.
Here is what Jeff Leve says about 1968 Bdx:
" 1968 Bordeaux wine is the product of a huge harvest made from rain soaked grapes. August set a record for one of the coldest, wettest months in history. When the pickers descended on the vineyards, they were faced with harvesting a massive crop of unripe grapes. At least the harvest took place in decent weather. The 1968 Bordeaux harvest officially started September 20, the same date Bordeaux started to harvest in 1959 and 1982! That start date is the only thing 1968 Bordeaux has in common with 1959 or 1982. The 1968 Bordeaux vintage was the wettest year since 1951. Most, if not all 1968 Bordeaux wine are undrinkable today. Chateau Palmer stands out as they are the most notable Bordeax chateau that declassified their entire crop.
If you’re seeking something to celebrate this specific vintage, consider buying The Beatles “White Album” or perhaps the greatest classic, album ever released by The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Electric Ladyland! Led Zeppelin 2 is another fo the great classic rock albums recorded that year. If you want a wine for a birth year, or anniversary, look for wines from Spain, especially Vega Sicilia. 1968 was also a very strong year for California Cabernet Sauvignon wine. Those are all better choices than 1968 Bordeaux wine.
Read more at:1968 Bordeaux Wine Vintage Report and Buying Guide"
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I just want to try a 40+ year old wine. No particular reason than to just have the experience and increase my wine knowledge. At the same time, I don’t want to spend a bunch of money in case I don’t like it or it’s undrinkable. I’ll keep looking around.
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if you tell us your price range I am sure you will get lots of recommendations
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You need to buy the right 40+ year wine then. Buying a 1968 Bdx would tell you, perhaps incorrectly, that you just dont like old wine.
btw, 40 year wine would be a 1984, so if you want to try 40+ year wines, you can look at early 80’s where you will still find perfectly drinkable stuff for not too much money.
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Would you consider a dessert wine? There is a ton of very reasonably priced old bottles of Moulin Touchais on the market. I believe the source of them is the winery, so they are likely to be in very good condition. Woodland Hills has many in stock right now. You could try a number of bottles from different decades and get an idea of just how old you like them.
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Retail can also uncover old gems. This is a solid producer that regularly released from their library stock. Likely still on the upswing even.
If you’re looking for any good old wine, you’ll likely be able to find something. Happy hunting
I’ve been trying to backfill for a bit now and I cannot agree with this more. Unfortunately most of my older purchases are from WineBid and provenance can be tricky. I was born in ‘84 and so far I’m around 1/8 in birth year wines. Overall for the 70s & 80s I’m probably 3 or 4/25. 90s is more like 60% and early 2000s 70-80%. Always have a bottle set aside just in case.
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I think taking reccos from those with insight into the local retail market is a super starting point. An easy way to dip toes into the water.
With a bit more experience of older wines, I used to love picking around the fringes of the auction scene, be that small local auction houses, less popular / well-known appellations, or mixed lots. The latter less of interest to the merchants and traders who dominated the auction bidders (full unopened cases very much more useful to them).
… but for now better IMO to pay a little extra to have more specific wines to start exploring. It’ll help later if you end up dabbling in auctions.
If you want to stick with Bordeaux, you might want to look at the 1985 vintage. The wines are showing extremely well, and you will probably find something in your price range.
Also bear in mind the auction hammer price is not the amount you will end up paying. By the time you have included commission and taxes, you can add a third to your total. Your $60 is $80.
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83 is also a very nice vintage in parts of bdx that’s less expensive than 82.
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