1985 Hugel et Fils Gewurztraminer Hugel Cuvee Tradition
1978 Hugel et Fils Gewurztraminer Hugel Cuvee Tradition
1969 Schloss Reinhartshausen (no other identification, so I’ve no idea what it is other than it is an SR)
Conditions are good with high fills, some capsule corrosion and the '69’s label fell off in the box (has an English importer label on the back, like one of the photos in the other thread).
Mediocre and off vintages of Hugel Gewürztraminer that are likely over the hill, and a mystery German. This is NOT worth $268 + shipping.
I had previously sworn off Garagiste for good, and now I REALLY mean it!
quote=“Kris Patten”]
You haven’t even tried them yet. At $85 a bottle you might be surprised. At $150 a bottle I could understand the premature disappointment.[/quote]
For me, I got these:
And Kris, your point is valid. I haven’t tried these either. But here’s why I have a bit of buyer’s remorse. Rimmerman said this:
“With bottles dating back to 1864…”
“the deepest part of the collection from 1930-1976”
“The bonus is that the family spent several decades collecting Alsatian wine as well – most from the late 1950’s through the early 1970’s”
So I get 3 mid-70’s wines, one without any label or indication of producer. $85/btl, and you can’t even tell me who the producer is??? And, of the pictures I’ve seen, most bottles are '70’s, one or two from the '60’s. Where are the '30’s, 40’s, 50’s???
This is a reminder to me that one has to read a Rimmerman email VERY carefully. The deepest part of this collection may in fact be from 1930-1976. But the deepest part of that group is apparently from the mid to late 70’s. And seemingly, the deepest part of the offering is not from Germany, if the 3 data points above are indicative. Alsace and Austria are more highly represented.
Might these bottles be great? Could be…time will tell. I’m sure they might be interesting enough. Perhaps great. But they are not representative of what I thought I had a chance at. And that’s easy enough for me to write-off…“I guess my random pick didn’t work out”. But when I see the contents of others 3 packs, I see a pattern developing. One that seems inconsistent with what I was led to believe. But that’s on me. At this point, my “Rimmerman decoder ring” should be more finely tuned.
Counting shipping, at a $100 a bottle that SR had better be an amazing wine (whatever is in it). Of the selections posted so far, I appear to have the worst. At least you guys got more Rieslings.
I haven’t tried any ancient Gewurtztraminers, but I guess I will soon. To add a data point:
1967 Hugel Reserve Exceptionelle Auslese Riesling - leaked a fair bit in shipping*
1976 Hugel Reserve Personelle Gewurtztraminer
1975 Rheinessen Steinberger Riesling Kabinett
Garagiste are replacing the leaking bottle, which is appreciated. Like posters above, I was sad to see that from a German Cellar “deepest from 1930-1976,” and going from “dry to kabinett to beerenauslese to eiswine” , I ended up with mostly French wines, and mostly wines from the 70s.
I really don’t think this is any fault of Garagiste’s. With a giant stack of old wine, I expect some things to go wrong.
Blind tasting can be fun - blind buying never is. I’d be royally disappointed if I bought in this offer and got some of the wines people are mentioning. I’d suggest sending them to auction, but I doubt you’d recoup much.
While obviously one can’t be disappointed in the wineuntil trying, I’d be disappointed in the deal at these prices- not sure any of wines listed would fly off a retailer’s shelf at $85. In last few years I’ve bought Hugel Gew. VTs from good 80s vintages for $30 at winebid, 76 Rheingau Auslese from unheralded producers for $20 for Cellaraiders, etc. Would anyone here pay $40 for an unlabeled bottle of '77 Austrian BA (though I’m confident that’s what it is, who would lie re that??).
I also bit on these after swearing off mystery wines…This is what I received and I have not looked them up but I think this will end up as the worst wine purchase in history in terms of value for what I ended up with. The first two wines look like they are basic level wines and the last wine, well I have not a frigin clue.
1977 Hugel Muscat Cuvee Tradition
1985 Hugel Gewurz Cuvee Tradition
1966 Van der Smit Urziger Wurzgarten Natur
I’ve had a stunning '83 ZH VT (single vineyard, can’t remember which- Goldert or Hengst) , on dryish side have enjoyed '85 Trimbach SdR (though definitely drink up time) and 89 ZH Herr. d. Turck. Not thought much of the few 70s Gewurz I’ve had, but sample is small. Lower acid grape, so not obvious ager. But sure that it’s possible to age well.
Obviously the few people who have posted here might not be a representative sample. Maybe someone got a '59 TBA from an acclaimed producer. But while I am a fan of experimentation and a fan of Riesling (and to a lesser extent Gewurz), I haven’t seen a single bottle listed here or on the Great Enabler thread that I would have considered spending say $60 for. A couple good vintages, but with exception of Hugel these seem to be mostly unknown producers, or importer’s brands (I thought this according to this thread a cellar from Germany, but aren’t many of these importers-Hallgarten Selections etc- to England?). Most of the wines are from less regarded vintages, and/or base level/QbA bottlings.
Pre-71, I guess not a lot of regulation, but I’m curious to know what a Spatlese Eiswein tastes like, seems counterintuitive to me.
I truly hope all or at least some of the bottles are stunning. But the discrepancy between what is hinted at and what is delivered seems extreme. I thought idea of “mystery packages” was that retailer quickly moved a bunch of stuff, but at lower prices than if they were more patient. This looks more like double the price, on stuff that would sit around for years.
[/quote]
Pre-71, I guess not a lot of regulation, but I’m curious to know what a Spatlese Eiswein tastes like, seems counterintuitive to me.
I[/quote]
I am really curious. The bottle sataes that it was estate bottled by the grower for Hallgarten.
It was awarded a Goldenen Kammerpreismunze (Gold Medal) for the region and a Staatsehrenpreis.
Enough to make it a likely interesting bottle to me unles the provenance is not as stated. In general, I have found gold medal winners in Germany from the 50’s -70’s to be stunning if the provenance is any good. I have been a little lax in posting recently but I won’t omit this for better or worse.
I’ve had quite a bit of older Alsatian gewurztraminer, but “older” here hardly ever refers to more than twenty years, as only the most brilliant-sited and acid-retaining gewurztraminer would possibly reward that much aging. So: Beyer, Trimbach, pre-Olivier Zind-Humbrecht, pre-decline Hugel, etc. Names everyone knows. I’d even be hesitant about VT and SGN version of the grape after that much time, though those are usually a safer bet, and can come from a slightly wider group of producers.
The wines I’m seeing here, though, are (as noted) mostly basic bottlings, and while I wouldn’t discount the possibility that they’ve held in some sort of fashion, I wouldn’t bet more than a few dollars on it. I don’t like saying this about wines that people have spent a good deal more on, but if they’re still interesting it’d almost be a miracle. So, for example, that '85 Hugel: I agree with Dale that even proven agers from other producers and much better sites are in decline now, and that bottle is neither. It could still be OK, but it’s pretty much the only one I’d have even a glimmer of hope for.
At the time of the offer, some on the Garagiste thread were wondering why, if the collection was as special as Jon suggested, the owner would sell it through him as a “big deal” rather than auction it… I guess we may have our answer…
At auction people would have known the wines that they were buying and while there is no doubt there might have been interest in what seems like the few very old or special bottles, I wonder how much interest there would have been in basic bottlings just because they were old or in the off/merely decent vintages… Interesting and creative way to sell a lot of wines that would have little to no interest otherwise alongside a small fraction of special bottles.
I think because he has such a large customer base that is probably still growing. For all those who get burned on offers like this or the special cases which seem to be a dud (at least in my opinion), he probably finds people who liked what they got or new customers who got shut out on this offer and want to try the next.
Proves that you have to read very carefully - a few years ago I gave Jon the benefit of the doubt and jumped in blind on a number of things, but now do not - admittedly more as a result of offers like this that I’d didn’t buy then being particularly disappointed with what I have. For example, I just opened a bottle of the 06 Ramey Larkmead for $29 which was a mystery wine and am very happy that I have a case but I am happy that I passed on most of the mystery wines given some of the comments.
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Of the selections posted so far, I appear to have the worst. At least you guys got more Rieslings.