A contrary take on a simple red Burgundy

[ky1em1ttskus]

@Andrew Gold

I have to admit I don’t understand posts like this. Is there something that says as a wine lover you need to love all wine regions? Need to find the wines interesting or good values? It sounds to me like you’ve sorted out you don’t find burgundy to be a good value, great!

I don’t mean to single out Kevin, there are posts like this nearly every week. I don’t see how they forward anyones enjoyment/knowledge/etc of wine.

Perhaps the OP is wondering if he got a bad bottle or if his experience can be explained. And apparently, it can be. Others who are certainly more knowledgable than me have explained that they’re quite sure the wine was shut down. That’s good info for many people, myself included. The thread may provide other recommendations or suggestions for how to better appreciate the wine in question. This all seems relatively valuable to me and very much in line with this board and what I believe its purpose is.

I don’t understand the point of your post, honestly. Should we not post about experiences with wines that weren’t wonderful? Contrarian posts, that are identified as such in the title, don’t serve a purpose? If nothing else, this post is a tasting note. You don’t understand posting tasting notes, in this case, with lots of information to perhaps better inform the note readers?

[DougS]

@Andrew Gold

I have to admit I don’t understand posts like this. Is there something that says as a wine lover you need to love all wine regions? Need to find the wines interesting or good values? It sounds to me like you’ve sorted out you don’t find burgundy to be a good value, great!

I don’t mean to single out Kevin, there are posts like this nearly every week. I don’t see how they forward anyones enjoyment/knowledge/etc of wine.

+1.

Kevin, you’re saying you don’t have a ton of experience with Burgundy, yet you can accurately evaluate the potential of a wine that might be shut down? That just doesn’t make any sense, regardless of how much young Nebbiolo you have tasted.

[DougS]

By the way, I am far from a Burgundy apologist, and I agree that there’s very little value to be had in the US these days.

[Richard_Malloy]

@Andrew Gold

I have to admit I don’t understand posts like this. Is there something that says as a wine lover you need to love all wine regions? Need to find the wines interesting or good values? It sounds to me like you’ve sorted out you don’t find burgundy to be a good value, great!

I don’t mean to single out Kevin, there are posts like this nearly every week. I don’t see how they forward anyones enjoyment/knowledge/etc of wine.

Someone with similar tastes or an urge to sample a new region would find this helpful. I’ve identified a few such folks on this forum whose opinions have guided me as I explore CA/OR pn.

Burgundy is my greatest love (Piedmont was my first), and I completely agree that it is overpriced and an utter minefield to navigate for the uninitiated. It also matures in a wonky, non linear fashion making if difficult to ever know quite what to expect from any single bottle.

Really one should look elsewhere if exploring new regions … except Piedmont!

[Kevin_M_L]

I’m reporting my experience and my impressions as I continue to taste and try to understand the appeal of wines that many of you love. I won’t make apologies for that. Not every post needs to seek information; sometimes we pass along an experience. Maybe you think I’m wrong or obtuse. That’s fine. Maybe you don’t find my contributions valuable. That’s fine too. These forums are full of people patting each other on the back and heaping praise on all things Burgundy, often with no value added to anyone other than those who are inside the bubble. Look at the polls asking how many bottles of certain Burgundy producers are in your cellar. Look at laundry lists of wine dinners that often do no more than give one sentence each about a series of $2000 wines that all but a few souls will never taste. Do you think that those posts add more value than my post? Maybe to you they do. They do nothing for me (and yet, ahem, I don’t feel the need to chime in and tell everyone I find the discussion pointless). I suspect there are at least some among us who find value in what I chose to share—especially those of us who haven’t given up on trying to find the magic that justifies the pricing within the tiers of Burgundy mere mortals can afford. If you don’t fit the bill then feel free to go start another thread about whatever moves you. I’ll keep doing the same. Thanks.

[CFu]

I kinda agree with Kevin, village burgundy is becoming one of the biggest rip offs for general purchases in the US. Nowadays everyone’s village burg is $50. Before you’d get an awesome bottle of Fourrier Gev Chamb VV for $50 and it certainly drank above the price point. Unfortunately those days are long gone.

[g.colangelo]

@Kevin M L

IThese forums are full of people patting each other on the back and heaping praise on all things Burgundy, often with no value added to anyone other than those who are inside the bubble. Look at the polls asking how many bottles of certain Burgundy producers are in your cellar. Look at laundry lists of wine dinners that often do no more than give one sentence each about a series of $2000 wines that all but a few souls will never taste.

I am a Burgundy lover, but I am happy with your post for two reasons:

1. Burgundy prices are getting crazy - complaining is good;
2. always agreeing about the great wines is not much fun, and not very useful.
   Disagreement about wines should always be encouraged!

[Berry_Crawford]

Over the last three years I feel Burgundy in general no longer offers a good value in my opinion. It used to be distinctive and a smart buy. Now it is just distinctive. Even the “insider” type domains are getting pretty expensive. Really if you consider where prices are now compared to 2002 (my first burg vintage) things are insane. And beyond price, even if you can afford the wines at any cost too many domains are heavily allocated.

Im not really complaining, the domains deserve all the success in the world, but there is no question that buying and drinkinh Burgundy is not like it was even a few years ago.

All that said, I suspect Kevin’s bottle was probably a bit closed and needed some well timed air.

[Peter_Chiu]

Golden years for burgundy lovers were the 1990s.

Right now due to the low yields for the last few years ( from 2010 to 2013 ) I start to buy and drink the low-end wines. For example from Musigny and Montrachet to Mercurey and Marsanney…

[Gary_Ahearn]

@maureen nelson

It used to be easy to find “value” burgundy in the States at almost every price point short of DRC and Leroy - but this was when you had to have spent time learning about and understanding Burgundy. Now that the shortcut of going online and reading someone’s TN (especially Meadows’) is available, the hoi polloi have caused price hikes that remove the value.

Burgundy was relatively affordable until Burghound’s 2005 reviews.

[Kevin_M_L]

@kylemittskus

@Carl Steefel

I myself do not understand the combination of the descriptors “thin” and “hot”, which usually do not go together. If hot, there should be some level of glycerol typically–the usual complaint (well, in the past) with Burgs are that they are too thin, but these are also the low alcohol wines of the past.

I’ve had many wines that are both thin (lacking body) and hot (the alcohol stands out, perhaps prominently). I don’t think those two experiences are mutually exclusive at all. Just my take, of course.

This is exactly what I meant to convey.

[Berry_Crawford]

@Gary Ahearn

@maureen nelson

It used to be easy to find “value” burgundy in the States at almost every price point short of DRC and Leroy - but this was when you had to have spent time learning about and understanding Burgundy. Now that the shortcut of going online and reading someone’s TN (especially Meadows’) is available, the hoi polloi have caused price hikes that remove the value.

Burgundy was relatively affordable until Burghound’s 2005 reviews.

I think this coincided with the 12 angry men (or whatever they were called), Rudy and Acker all helping popularize and make Burgundy “hip” and more mainstream among burgundy geeks. In the case of Rudy I think it was an explicit pump and dump strategy. This along with the “Vintage of the Century” hype for 2005 seemed to create a perfect storm.

[Jay_Miller]

@NoahR

To those Burg lovers: is Corton GC qualitatively worse than Echezeaux, Musigny and other top tier sites up North? It is certainly priced that way. Any producers that would be considered the best here?

Even if it’s expensive, I love -relative- bargains, so I’d consider some of these in my exploration of Burgundy. Still looking for that Holy Grail of QPR on something I really love.

I love Corton GC with the caveat that it seems to need more time than many other regions to show what it has. While I’ve enjoyed younger wines the ones that have wowed me were generally 25+ years old. The only ones I’m familiar with are Drouhin, Chandon de Briailles, and the former Prince Florent de Merode but all have proven pretty reliable. A 1971 Merode Bressandes I opened 2 months ago was wonderful.


Personally I never understand posts saying that they don’t understand other people’s posts. I don’t understand what I just said.

[Richard_Malloy]

@Gary Ahearn

@maureen nelson

It used to be easy to find “value” burgundy in the States at almost every price point short of DRC and Leroy - but this was when you had to have spent time learning about and understanding Burgundy. Now that the shortcut of going online and reading someone’s TN (especially Meadows’) is available, the hoi polloi have caused price hikes that remove the value.

Burgundy was relatively affordable until Burghound’s 2005 reviews.

One of the best, most knowledgeable retailers in my town claims the same is now occurring in the piedmont thanks to Galloni’s gushing reviews and score inflation.

Remember folks: Burgundy’s a minefield of underperforming wines and those Piedmontese make only make rustic, VA ridden country juice!

[Gerhard_P]

@NoahR

To those Burg lovers: is Corton GC qualitatively worse than Echezeaux, Musigny and other top tier sites up North? It is certainly priced that way. Any producers that would be considered the best here?

Even if it’s expensive, I love -relative- bargains, so I’d consider some of these in my exploration of Burgundy. Still looking for that Holy Grail of QPR on something I really love.

Yes, Corton GC can be a great value - IF you have the proper patience and time in the cellar … for me at least 20 years in a good vintage … some 1992, 1991, 1989 are very fine now, most 1990 will be soon …

E.g. taste Rapet Corton 1990 now …
(this is also a rec. …)

No, usually Corton isn´t on the level of a (GOOD) Echezeaux, even less a Musigny … it lacks the perfume, the finesse and complexity - a Corton is much more direct, sturdy and compact … but a fine mature example can be a revelation on the palate (rarely in the nose) …

[Leonard_Maran]

I know full well that the positives posted here about Burgundy are true, nonetheless I’ve just given up on them. If money were no object it would be a different story.

[Nathan_Smyth]

@Kevin M L

I’m reporting my experience…

I’ve tried to do the same thing that you’re trying to do here and it’s a waste of time.

There are two points to be made about Burgundy:

1. Yes, the greatest wines in the world are from Burgundy.

2. No, there are no more great values to be found from Burgundy [at least not in the USA].

It’s 2) which really seems to infuriate them, for reasons that I don’t understand.

[Kevin_M_L]

@Nathan Smyth

@Kevin M L

I’m reporting my experience…

I’ve tried to do the same thing that you’re trying to do here and it’s a waste of time.

There are two points to be made about Burgundy:

1. Yes, the greatest wines in the world are from Burgundy.

2. No, there are no more great values to be found from Burgundy [at least not in the USA].

It’s 2) which really seems to infuriate them, for reasons that I don’t understand.

I haven’t tasted enough to make those broad statements. I have an impression that #2 is probably correct. I have deep doubts about #1 if generalizing beyond pinot noir or chardonnay. Keep in mind that my favorite producer is Quintarelli—so my tastes might lie elsewhere.

[Nowell_Karten]

@Nathan Smyth

2. No, there are no more great values to be found from Burgundy [at least not in the USA].

From my perspective, this is not true. There have been many discussions of, and there is significant consensus on, identified producers’ bottles of premier cru vineyards in Savigny, Beaune, and Pernand that are excellent values in the $35-$55 range.

Unfortunately, their quality-level isn’t seen, until the wines reach maturity (which is at least age 10, if not 15 or 18, even from these vineyards.) So, anyone opening a four-year-old red Burgundy and judging the region, based on that single bottle or similar bottles, probably isn’t going to think much of its quality and value.

[Mike_During]

Slow to this but the problem is with Michel Gros not burgundy. I have about 4,000 burgs and not one from this producer, so not surprised it did not do it for you. You need to know what you are buying which I guess is not easy without experience, a bit of a catch 22 for a newbe. Cheer Mike